Django was my first big freelance project, and still feels tremendously cozy to use. I've done some goofy things with it and it's always served me really well. Thank you Django
Django 6
21–30 of 192 posts
Re: Django 6
#22Can someone remind me how we ended up in the SPA era and why exactly? Was it about not seeing the loading spinner? Or there were more reasons to it?
- Strict team separation (frontend versus backend)
- Moving all state-managament out of the backend and onto the frontend, in a supposedly easier to manage system
- Page refreshes are indeed jarring to users and more prone to leading to sudden context losses
- Desktop applications did not behave like web apps: they are "SPA"s in their own sense, without jarring refreshes or code that gets "yanked" out of execution. Since the OS has been increasingly abstracted under the browser, and the average computer user has moved more and more towards web apps[1], it stands to reason that the behavior of web apps should become more like that of desktop apps (i.e. "SPA"s)[2]
(Not saying I agree with these, merely pointing them out)
[1] These things are not entirely independent. It can be argued that the same powers that be (big corps) that pushed SPAs onto users are also pushing the "browser as OS" concept.
[2] I know you can get desktop-like behavior from non-SPAs, but it is definitely not as easy to do it or at least to _learn it_ now.
My actual opinion: I think it's a little bit of everything, with a big part of it coming from the fact that the web was the easiest way to build something that you could share with people effortlessly. Sharing desktop apps wasn't particularly easy (different targets, java was never truly run everywhere, etc.), but to share a webapp app you just put it online very quickly and have someone else point their browser to a URL -- often all they'll do is click a link! And in general it is definitely easier to build an SPA (from the frontender's perspective) than something else.
This creates a chain:
If I can create and share easily
-> I am motivated to do things easily
-> I learn the specific technology that is easiest
-> the market is flooded with people who know this technology better than everything else
-> the market must now hire from this pool to get the cheapest workers (or those who cost less to acquire due to quicker hiring processes)
-> new devs know that they need to learn this technology to get hired
-> the cycle continues
So, TL;DR: Much lower barrier to entry + quick feedback loops
P.S (and on topic): I am an extremely satisfied django developer, and very very very rarely touch frontend. Django is A-M-A-Z-I-N-G.
Re: Django 6
#23[flagged]
Re: Django 6
#24Django is awesome, but I wish there was an easy way to use modern web frameworks with it.
A lot of times it's either through Nextjs/Nuxtjs + Django as an API or complex bundling process which requires a file where you register bundle versions/manifests then another build process which embeds them into template
both are so complex
Re: Django 6
#25Show of hands for backend web services development - Who uses Django, Rails, or similar full-featured frameworks? Who uses micro-frameworks like Flask? Who uses enterprise Java, Jetty, Dot Net, etc.? Who uses an entirely Javascript stack? Who uses a non-traditional language that has become more web-servicey, like Go, Rust, or Swift? Who uses something so wildly untraditional that it's barely mentioned? OkCupid using…
I started using Django before the official 1.0 release and used it almost exclusively for years on web projects. Lately I prefer to mix my own tooling and a couple major packages in for backends (FastAPI, SQLAchemy) that are still heavily inspired by patterns I picked up while using Django. I end up with a little more boilerplate, but I also end up with a little more stylistic flexibility.
> I started using Django before the official 1.0 release
Indeed. I'm still using the 0.97beta. It's perfectly good for production use!
Re: Django 6
#26Can someone remind me how we ended up in the SPA era and why exactly? Was it about not seeing the loading spinner? Or there were more reasons to it?
Aside from the usual separation of tech stacks for different teams, the big thing for me is lack of any sort of type hinting or safety in templates at least in the big frameworks such as Django, Rails etc. I would much rather work with a separate build process that utilizes typescript than deal with the errors that come out of incorrectly reading formless data and making typos within templates.
Re: Django 6
#27Show of hands for backend web services development - Who uses Django, Rails, or similar full-featured frameworks? Who uses micro-frameworks like Flask? Who uses enterprise Java, Jetty, Dot Net, etc.? Who uses an entirely Javascript stack? Who uses a non-traditional language that has become more web-servicey, like Go, Rust, or Swift? Who uses something so wildly untraditional that it's barely mentioned? OkCupid using…
One proxy might be to look at the upvote counts for each of their respective latest release HN posts. Eg, this post has ~50 (though only posted an hour ago) Rails 8 had ~550 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41766515
Rails might not get a lot of new articles about it, and the chatter might have died down, but I think a lot of people still use it.
Re: Django 6
#28Show of hands for backend web services development - Who uses Django, Rails, or similar full-featured frameworks? Who uses micro-frameworks like Flask? Who uses enterprise Java, Jetty, Dot Net, etc.? Who uses an entirely Javascript stack? Who uses a non-traditional language that has become more web-servicey, like Go, Rust, or Swift? Who uses something so wildly untraditional that it's barely mentioned? OkCupid using…
I still have some very old Django projects that I'm maintaining for > 15 years. It's an absolute delight.
Yes. I'm still maintaining a Django site that I helped get live in 2007. I started learning Django in 2006.
Re: Django 6
#29Show of hands for backend web services development - Who uses Django, Rails, or similar full-featured frameworks? Who uses micro-frameworks like Flask? Who uses enterprise Java, Jetty, Dot Net, etc.? Who uses an entirely Javascript stack? Who uses a non-traditional language that has become more web-servicey, like Go, Rust, or Swift? Who uses something so wildly untraditional that it's barely mentioned? OkCupid using…
This would make an interesting poll. I think that's possible here? Maybe with some karma threshold, I don't seem to be able to make one. We use flask and go at work. I've been micro-framework or roll-my-own-framework most of my career. Go is new for me though, and it's grown on me enough that it's what I prefer for new web-facing projects even for little personal things.
What should the options be? Were the ones I suggested coarse grained enough to capture everyone, or should I/we re-group or add more?
Re: Django 6
#30Django is awesome, but I wish there was an easy way to use modern web frameworks with it. A lot of times it's either through Nextjs/Nuxtjs + Django as an API or complex bundling process which requires a file where you register bundle versions/manifests then another build process which embeds them into template both are so complex
Django + AlpineJS + HTMX is pretty nice.