Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

news.com.au

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 40 posts

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#21

Post by beedogs »

I've done work at CityLink, and their IT shop is just totally clueless. This does not surprise me one bit.

This is the same company that was doing "mirroring" with Veritas Volume Manager across a metro fibre link, rather than using their TrueCopy licenses. For no reason. Two fibre cuts rendered their entire production database (tolling) environment inoperable and nearly irrecoverable, on two separate occasions. I worked about 36 hours straight getting everything back online and was given a pair of movie tickets as a thank-you gift.

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#22

Post by bennysaurus »

bootload wrote: post #12

"... growing whisper within the security industry in Melbourne that there weak security might have been breached from China. ..." ~ http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4605335 Any idea what type of systems they are running?

In IT security here in Melbourne, first I've heard of it. Also why would network security specialists need to fly over 30 hours from Europe? We also have some pretty capable teams on the ground here already.

Given the time frame of when it happened it's more likely a change that has been borked in some way with difficulties in rolling back.

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#23

Post by Zenst »

rurounijones wrote: post #15
caf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ABC has an article with a quote that explains it better ( http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-03/tunnel-closures-cause-... ): CityLink spokeswoman Kate Murphy says the tunnels had to close as a precaution. "It's not just overhead signs [that are not working], it's also our safety systems as well," she said. "For example, in the tunnels the deluge systems or the smoke extraction systems which we may use in an emerg…

The fact that their safety systems (Which anyone would expect to be separate from the traffic control systems) are also affected makes me wonder about the "computer glitch" angle.

Like 99% of news reported computere glitch's it is some human mess up that caused it, either by design or error or a homer moment were somebody pressed the wrong button. Could even be somebody overloading the electrical phases in the datacentre and tripped the UPS into action for it to barth at the imbalance (seen that one).

This is why they say computer glitch and count on the majority of non technical people to not question it.

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#24

Post by DrStalker »

jeza wrote: post #20
josephagoss wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he was being sarcastic, hinting that network computerized auto-mobile's having a similar glitch would be truly devastating. If mankind can't get a tunnels systems to work all the time, then what about our plans to introduce computer controlled cars? A glitch could wipe out millions of lives before being patched, and even then if they get patched that also introduces huge areas of vulnerability. I'm sure a ste…

A bicycle would be good in such circumstances!

Only if you're nimble enough to dodge all the cars trying to run you down.

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#26

Post by DrStalker »

beedogs wrote: post #21

I've done work at CityLink, and their IT shop is just totally clueless. This does not surprise me one bit. This is the same company that was doing "mirroring" with Veritas Volume Manager across a metro fibre link, rather than using their TrueCopy licenses. For no reason. Two fibre cuts rendered their entire production database (tolling) environment inoperable and nearly irrecoverable, on two separate occasions. I wor…

I've worked with State Transit in NSW (buses & ferries) and they were awful. The most embarrassing part was the UNIX team and Windows team refusing to talk to each other even though they were only one cubicle partition away from each other so any communication had to go up through two levels of management and back down.

The scariest part was every single database of user information was transformed from another database of user information; there was no source of truth, just a great big never ending circle of import & convert that had reached equilibrium and was now stable, provided nothing changed.

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#27

Post by vacri »

jeza wrote: post #18
vacri wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more like 20km of traffic lights being out. These roads are our core east-west arterial roads and the landscape dictates that there aren't many other roads for the traffic to travel on. I can't say why there aren't traffic police out there, but these are once-public roads that have been privatised. Also, these roads are highways, not traffic intersections. Point of trivia: before the current toll road company wa…

It is the only uninterrupted motorway from the east to west sides of Melbourne, but not the only core arterial. There are other roads you can use to get from one side of town to the other. A lot of traffic using the tunnels is just commuter traffic from the east anyway. The tunnels never were public roads, they didn't exist. You can still drive on pretty much the entire length of the West Gate Freeway, right up to th…

Fair enough. I'm in the north, and the old Tulla freeway was definitely free all the way in, and now it's tolled, so that may be colouring my memory.

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#28

Post by JonnieCache »

josephagoss wrote: post #17
DrStalker wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We will still need safety systems in tunnels though, and lack of those is why they shut the tunnels down. Ignore the misleading quotes about the variable limit signs not working, the real issue is the tunnel is not safe if there is a problem like a fire of fume buildup.

I think he was being sarcastic, hinting that network computerized auto-mobile's having a similar glitch would be truly devastating. If mankind can't get a tunnels systems to work all the time, then what about our plans to introduce computer controlled cars? A glitch could wipe out millions of lives before being patched, and even then if they get patched that also introduces huge areas of vulnerability. I'm sure a ste…

>I'm sure a stealth program that loads onto a car and waits till a date to kill the occupants will be used by someone or a nation-state in the future.

If nation states want that they can do it right now:

http://www.autosec.org/pubs/cars-oakland2010.pdf

http://www.autosec.org/pubs/cars-usenixsec2011.pdf

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#29

Post by ghshephard »

0xdecaff wrote: post #11
redthrowaway wrote: post #2

I'm having a really hard time seeing how this is any different than a traffic light being out. If "me-go-you-go" fails, why don't they just have a traffic officer out there directing traffic manually?

They have fume extractor fans in the tunnels. If they aren't on, CO poisoning for everyone.

One would hope that the "fail safe" scenario for fume extractor fans would be "Blow at full speed"

Re: Computer Glitch brings Melbourne traffic to a standstill

#30

Post by ghshephard »

lessnonymous wrote: post #10
redthrowaway wrote: post #2

I'm having a really hard time seeing how this is any different than a traffic light being out. If "me-go-you-go" fails, why don't they just have a traffic officer out there directing traffic manually?

(Ignoring all the safety stuff in other replies) These are tunnels over 3km long. You can't have cops down there without breathing apparatus - even if the extractors were safely operating.

Why would it be safe for people driving vehicles, but not for police officers?
Post reply on HN