one thing that struck me was that the foundation for this effort was the linux distro build system. in other words, the work they put into making .net open-source and cross-platform eventually made everyone's lives easier.
Reinventing how .NET builds and ships (again)
21–30 of 146 posts
Re: Reinventing how .NET builds and ships (again)
#22I have a lot of respect for the .NET team. They often publish great in-depth articles and their pursuit for performance is relentless (e.g. see Kestrel and Entity Framework evolution). And ASP.NET is one of the few large projects which managed to survive a large breaking changes. Almost to Python 2->3 level. You had to change how your web app behaved completely if you relied on their magic session which worked hard t…
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Re: Reinventing how .NET builds and ships (again)
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
I love working with dotnet, but lately I’ve been writing more backend applications in Python. The code is simpler, testing is simpler since method privacy doesn’t really exist, and code is quicker to deploy because you do not have to compile it. This could also change but in my experience AI is better at generating Python code versus dotnet.
I'm moving from Python to Java because of how much easier it is to actually use all CPU cores in Java and strict typing prevents so many bugs and it is much faster. I don't think it is actually that much more complicated than Python in 2025.
out of curiosity, why not kotlin? I had the impression it was the jvm language to reach for by default these days.
Re: Reinventing how .NET builds and ships (again)
#24I can see that high level overviews of complex systems are useful to get some insights, but in the same way I have the feeling that this mentality of high level, abstract organization is the root of the problem. If you have a complex system and simplify the components into abstractions, you will repeatedly run into difficulties because you've actively ignored the dirty bits. It's an top down approach that tries to tackle all issues, but an bottom up approach could even eradicate myriads of issues.
Re: Reinventing how .NET builds and ships (again)
#25[deleted]
Re: Reinventing how .NET builds and ships (again)
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
I love working with dotnet, but lately I’ve been writing more backend applications in Python. The code is simpler, testing is simpler since method privacy doesn’t really exist, and code is quicker to deploy because you do not have to compile it. This could also change but in my experience AI is better at generating Python code versus dotnet.
Problem is though Python is slow at runtime. May not matter for many use cases, but I've worked with a lot of startups that suffered terrible reliability problems because they chose Python (or Rails, or Node to some extent) and the service cannot handle peak time load without a lot of refactoring and additional app servers. Depending on your framework Python is at best ~3x slower (FastAPI) and at worst ~20x (Django)…
I don't spend a lot of time building services, but the last few I've done, I actually went straight to Rust. The downside is that it's quite slow to develop -- I probably don't have the knowledge that others do, but it seems that frameworks could really use some work. That said, I love that I can find and fix most my problems during development. Building a service in Python means I'm constantly fixing issues in production.
.NET is certainly better than Python, but I'm not very happy with the type system and the code organization versus my Rust projects.
Re: Reinventing how .NET builds and ships (again)
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
I love working with dotnet, but lately I’ve been writing more backend applications in Python. The code is simpler, testing is simpler since method privacy doesn’t really exist, and code is quicker to deploy because you do not have to compile it. This could also change but in my experience AI is better at generating Python code versus dotnet.
If you don't want your methods to be private make them public?
Just make them internal and use [InternalsVisibleTo] on the assembly.
Re: Reinventing how .NET builds and ships (again)
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm moving from Python to Java because of how much easier it is to actually use all CPU cores in Java and strict typing prevents so many bugs and it is much faster. I don't think it is actually that much more complicated than Python in 2025.
out of curiosity, why not kotlin? I had the impression it was the jvm language to reach for by default these days.
Has too much sugar, and without JetBrains IDE you're stuck with a plain text editor. Not sure if it's generalizable to normal Kotlin or not, but learning Gradle Kotlin DSL made me want to rip my hair out when trying to understand what happens under the hood.
Re: Reinventing how .NET builds and ships (again)
#29.NET was a solid choice for backend builds before Node became so popular (And .NET is generally more performant than Node). I hope this churn in .NET builds is temporary because a lot of people might be looking to go back to something stable especially after the recent supply chain attacks on the Node ecosystem.
> I hope this churn in .NET builds is temporary because a lot of people might be looking to go back to something stable especially after the recent supply chain attacks on the Node ecosystem. Can you elaborate a bit? This article talks about internal machinery of building .net releases. What does that have to do with "this churn", whatever that is?
What do you mean? The .Net ecosystem has been generalized chaos for the past 10 years.
A few years ago even most people actively working in .Net development couldn't tell what the hell was going on. It's better now. I distinctly recall when .Net Framework v4.8 had been released and a few months later .Net Core 3.0 came out and they announced that .Net Standard 2.0 was going to be the last version of that. Nobody had any idea what anything was.
.Net 5 helped a lot. Even then, MS has been releasing new versions of .Net at a breakneck pace. We're on .Net 10, and .Net Core 1.0 was 9 years ago. There's literally been a major version release every year for almost a decade. This is for a standard software framework! v10 is an LTS version of a software framework with all of 3 years of support. Yeah, it's only supported until 2028, and that's the LTS version.
Re: Reinventing how .NET builds and ships (again)
#30.NET was a solid choice for backend builds before Node became so popular (And .NET is generally more performant than Node). I hope this churn in .NET builds is temporary because a lot of people might be looking to go back to something stable especially after the recent supply chain attacks on the Node ecosystem.
> I hope this churn in .NET builds is temporary because a lot of people might be looking to go back to something stable especially after the recent supply chain attacks on the Node ecosystem. Can you elaborate a bit? This article talks about internal machinery of building .net releases. What does that have to do with "this churn", whatever that is?
My guess is if you build with .NET Framework you can just forever run your builds, but if your source code is based on newer .NET you have to update to a new version each year, and deal with all the work in upgrading your entire project, which also means everyone in your team is also upgrading their dev environment, and now you have new things in the language and the runtime to deal with, deprecation and all that. Plus lots of packages don’t update as fast when version changes occurs, so chances are you will probably take more work and use as few dependencies as possible if at all, which may cause a lot of work. Instead it’s best to, if you need to depend on something, to be a very big Swiss Army knife like thing.
I think node is just more flexible and unless .NET Framework like forever releases or much longer term support make a come back, there’s no good trade off from node, since you don’t even get more stability.