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How stealth addresses work in Monero
21–30 of 62 posts
Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where does the trust come from for transacting in dollars, or Spanish pieces of eight? I'm not saying the monero economy is likely but there's absolutely no reason why it couldn't theoretically happen
Courts, law enforcement and contract law. All of which will take a dim view of using a currency which appears designed wholly to make their function harder.
That is not where trust in the dollar comes from.
It comes from stability. Predictability.
Courts and law enforcement certainly provide these things, but they are not required. The inherent design of blockchains makes them trustworthy (an oversimplified statement), which is even better.
Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Courts, law enforcement and contract law. All of which will take a dim view of using a currency which appears designed wholly to make their function harder.
A crypto advocate would argue smart contracts can fulfil that role, but also that applies in developed countries but not in the countries where the vast majority of the world population lives. I think if a true crypto economy does emerge anywhere it's likely to be Nigeria, Lebanon etc - places with a significant population of educated entrepreneurial people but where the state is run abysmally and you can't rely on t…
It seems to me that the crypto absolutists have it backwards. You can’t solve the problem of failed states by changing the technology of currency, because the state is there to solve for the counterparty risk at the point of exchange.
The alternative to governments monopoly on violence for enforcement, no matter if you exchange in monero or giant stone discs, is broad use of vigilante violence.
So while crypto seems like an interesting technology for moving money around, it seems like it doesn’t solve for the point of exchange problem and thus crypto that focuses on making that difficult for government mediation are bound to be only useful for illegal activities.
Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
Courts, law enforcement and contract law. All of which will take a dim view of using a currency which appears designed wholly to make their function harder.
That is not where trust in the dollar comes from. It comes from stability. Predictability. Courts and law enforcement certainly provide these things, but they are not required. The inherent design of blockchains makes them trustworthy (an oversimplified statement), which is even better.
Blockchains don’t, and can’t, solve for the risk of the off chain component of an exchange.
The transactions aren’t atomic so someone is taking on counterparty risk. One of governments prime responsibilities is dealing with that risk, no matter the currency in question.
Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
A crypto advocate would argue smart contracts can fulfil that role, but also that applies in developed countries but not in the countries where the vast majority of the world population lives. I think if a true crypto economy does emerge anywhere it's likely to be Nigeria, Lebanon etc - places with a significant population of educated entrepreneurial people but where the state is run abysmally and you can't rely on t…
It seems to me that the crypto absolutists have it backwards. You can’t solve the problem of failed states by changing the technology of currency, because the state is there to solve for the counterparty risk at the point of exchange. The alternative to governments monopoly on violence for enforcement, no matter if you exchange in monero or giant stone discs, is broad use of vigilante violence. So while crypto seems…
There is no counterparty risk for the seller in the traditional sense with bitcoin or monero, they're bearer assets, once the transaction is confirmed in your wallet there's no risk for you. You don't need to use violence to make sure you get paid?
What you actually have is the opposite problem (in a sense) - the transaction is irreversible, the seller will receive payment and keep it even if they shouldn't (i.e fraud). So there is more risk for the buyer than in a fiat system where transactions can be reversed by legal processes
Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems to me that the crypto absolutists have it backwards. You can’t solve the problem of failed states by changing the technology of currency, because the state is there to solve for the counterparty risk at the point of exchange. The alternative to governments monopoly on violence for enforcement, no matter if you exchange in monero or giant stone discs, is broad use of vigilante violence. So while crypto seems…
There is no counterparty risk for the seller in the traditional sense with bitcoin or monero, they're bearer assets, once the transaction is confirmed in your wallet there's no risk for you. You don't need to use violence to make sure you get paid? What you actually have is the opposite problem (in a sense) - the transaction is irreversible, the seller will receive payment and keep it even if they shouldn't (i.e frau…
That’s all counterparty risk. If you deliver the payment before the service/good the buyer takes on the risk. The opposite is true if the payment or good is delivered first.
You can dial the risk in either direction with any payment scheme (20% down balance due on delivery etc) but you can’t eliminate it.
Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
What makes you think Monero is untraceable? - https://arxiv.org/pdf/2408.05332 - https://darkwebinformer.com/chainalysis-successful-deanonymi... - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266628172...
Your post seems like F.U.D. #1: "between 2019 and 2023" #2: the author wrote "This attack is not realistic. ... This is why everyone needs to run their own node" #3: "digital forensic approach can still reveal sensitive information by examining off-chain artifacts such as memory and wallet files" So... #1 seems to have been mitigated. #2 seems to not be an issue if you run your own node. #3 seems to not be an issue i…
#1 and #2 are public results by market leading blockchain analytics companies that have an alphabet soup of agencies as their major clients.
Do you think they published their current state of the art?
Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where does the trust come from for transacting in dollars, or Spanish pieces of eight? I'm not saying the monero economy is likely but there's absolutely no reason why it couldn't theoretically happen
Courts, law enforcement and contract law. All of which will take a dim view of using a currency which appears designed wholly to make their function harder.
>Courts, law enforcement and contract law.
That's the wrong answer. The existence of tokens predates the existence of government. It's the next step after barter. The correct answer is reputation. A vendor who cheats his customers builds up a bad reputation, and the only way he can keep doing it is by changing customer bases, for example by moving to a different town. Think of the traveling snake oil salesman who moves on once people realize his remedies don't work.
Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no counterparty risk for the seller in the traditional sense with bitcoin or monero, they're bearer assets, once the transaction is confirmed in your wallet there's no risk for you. You don't need to use violence to make sure you get paid? What you actually have is the opposite problem (in a sense) - the transaction is irreversible, the seller will receive payment and keep it even if they shouldn't (i.e frau…
That’s all counterparty risk. If you deliver the payment before the service/good the buyer takes on the risk. The opposite is true if the payment or good is delivered first. You can dial the risk in either direction with any payment scheme (20% down balance due on delivery etc) but you can’t eliminate it.
Right yep, I understand what you mean. Yes, ultimately you need some kind of dispute mechanism that probably requires actual human intervention.
A good example is how disputes work on P2P crypto exchanges like bisq - you have a crypto contract of some kind that holds funds in escrow, but ultimately disputes are resolved by a team of actual humans who look at the facts and make a decision, not everything can be "code is law"
Re: How stealth addresses work in Monero
#30Something I don't understand. What's the point of obfuscation if ultimately you can be caught when you try to convert it to fiat? If I have Btc and I convert it to monero to prevent tracking, how do I get it back to money in my bank account without being traceable?
The point is being like a submarine: nobody really knows where you are moving (transactions) and where you will surface (which other crypto or fiat).
On the example you give, large majority of people just pay and accept payments using monero natively. When you are talking about large amount of money, then it is worth a visit to places like El Salvador where you have a bank account with BTC. The conversion tends to take place in exchanges outside 1st world supervision and from El Salvador you can convert BTC to other currencies according to the exchange values or just use it with a credit card.
If you want to convert smaller amounts in Europe without tracing, mostly a matter of settling the transactions with small providers albeit you should be prepared to pay a fee between 20% to 30% as commission for the service.