Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

jamestown.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 127 posts

Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#21

Post by kulahan »

leosanchez wrote: post #8
fragmede wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AI Threatens the Workforce Under communism, why is this a thing? I know that China hasn't been strictly communist since the Soviets fell but ostensibly, humanoid AI robots under semi-communism is a the dream, no?

Is it even semi-communism though? IIRC you can't even have an independent union in China

Of course. They outlawed private schools, get companies to donate multiple % points of their wealth to the state for redistribution, all companies exist purely at the pleasure of the government, nobody's wealth has any effect on their control by the government, etc.

It's a super communist state, it just happens to also embrace many parts of Capitalism.

Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#22

Post by graemep »

fragmede wrote: post #5
Isamu wrote: post #2

All sensible points: >Deployment Lacks Coordination >AI May Fail to Deliver Technological Progress >AI Threatens the Workforce >Economic Growth May Not Materialize >AI Brings Social Risks >Party elites have increasingly come to recognize the potential dangers of an unchecked, accelerationist approach to AI development. During remarks at the Central Urban Work Conference in July, Xi posed a question to attendees: “whe…

> AI Threatens the Workforce Under communism, why is this a thing? I know that China hasn't been strictly communist since the Soviets fell but ostensibly, humanoid AI robots under semi-communism is a the dream, no?

Is China communist?

There has been a huge amount of privatisation. There are literally hundreds of billionaires.

The state still owns some critical things, but is that enough to make it communist? Its not everything and you can have state ownership and still have a ruling class that has control of the means of production which it uses to its own advantage.

Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#23

Post by graemep »

tmp10423288442 wrote: post #12
kennyloginz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article, Xi looks down on western “Welfarism”, he believes it makes the population lazy.

And this is not something he came up with. This is a restatement of Stalin's philosophy, taken directly from the New Testament (remember that Stalin was training to be a priest in his youth): "He who does not work, neither shall he eat".

The translations I can find say:

"“If anyone is not willing to work, neither should he eat.”

Not, not working, but being lazy and refusing to do necessary work. A scrounger exploiting the kindness of others. Very likely addressed to a community with limited resources.

it goes on to say:

"For we hear that some among you are living an undisciplined life, not doing their own work but meddling in the work of others. Now such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to work quietly and so provide their own food to eat. But you, brothers and sisters, do not grow weary in doing what is right. But if anyone does not obey our message through this letter, take note of him and do not associate closely with him, so that he may be ashamed. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother."

Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#24

Post by JohnKemeny »

Is "PRC" a common abbreviation? Does it mean "China", or does it mean something else? Why not write China?

I'm from KOS* (neighbor country of KON* and ROF*), so I don't know much.

* Kingdom of Sweden, Kingdom of Norway, Republic of Finland.

Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#25

Post by CamperBob2 »

JohnKemeny wrote: post #24

Is "PRC" a common abbreviation? Does it mean "China", or does it mean something else? Why not write China? I'm from KOS* (neighbor country of KON* and ROF*), so I don't know much. * Kingdom of Sweden , Kingdom of Norway , Republic of Finland .

People's Republic of China. As distinguished from ROC (Republic of China), known to much of the ROW (Rest of the World) as Taiwan.

Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#27

Post by tmp10423288442 »

graemep wrote: post #23
tmp10423288442 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is not something he came up with. This is a restatement of Stalin's philosophy, taken directly from the New Testament (remember that Stalin was training to be a priest in his youth): "He who does not work, neither shall he eat".

The translations I can find say: "“If anyone is not willing to work, neither should he eat.” Not, not working, but being lazy and refusing to do necessary work. A scrounger exploiting the kindness of others. Very likely addressed to a community with limited resources. it goes on to say: "For we hear that some among you are living an undisciplined life, not doing their own work but meddling in the work of others. Now…

That's true, but the context is Xi being against Western "Welfarism". I presume (although I don't know for sure) that they're not against some support for the truly disabled, but that doesn't cover able-bodied people being on welfare for long periods, even if the employment market is unfavorable. The major exception is that Chinese people have traditionally been able to retire relatively young (in their 50s or even 40s sometimes) and receive support, particularly if they work for state-owned enterprises.

Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#28

Post by leosanchez »

kulahan wrote: post #21
leosanchez wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it even semi-communism though? IIRC you can't even have an independent union in China

Of course. They outlawed private schools, get companies to donate multiple % points of their wealth to the state for redistribution, all companies exist purely at the pleasure of the government, nobody's wealth has any effect on their control by the government, etc. It's a super communist state, it just happens to also embrace many parts of Capitalism.

I would assume a communist state atleast has independent unions. It looks more like state controls means of production rather than people.

Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#29

Post by graemep »

tmp10423288442 wrote: post #27
graemep wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The translations I can find say: "“If anyone is not willing to work, neither should he eat.” Not, not working, but being lazy and refusing to do necessary work. A scrounger exploiting the kindness of others. Very likely addressed to a community with limited resources. it goes on to say: "For we hear that some among you are living an undisciplined life, not doing their own work but meddling in the work of others. Now…

That's true, but the context is Xi being against Western "Welfarism". I presume (although I don't know for sure) that they're not against some support for the truly disabled, but that doesn't cover able-bodied people being on welfare for long periods, even if the employment market is unfavorable. The major exception is that Chinese people have traditionally been able to retire relatively young (in their 50s or even 4…

I agree, just wanted to point out its not as simple as Bible to Stalin to Xi - for one thing the "willing to" being removed makes it different..

Lenin said it too, and I do not think his meaning was as harsh as Stalin's, as the latter said it during a famine.

Re: PRC elites voice AI-skepticism

#30

Post by petre »

graemep wrote: post #23
tmp10423288442 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is not something he came up with. This is a restatement of Stalin's philosophy, taken directly from the New Testament (remember that Stalin was training to be a priest in his youth): "He who does not work, neither shall he eat".

The translations I can find say: "“If anyone is not willing to work, neither should he eat.” Not, not working, but being lazy and refusing to do necessary work. A scrounger exploiting the kindness of others. Very likely addressed to a community with limited resources. it goes on to say: "For we hear that some among you are living an undisciplined life, not doing their own work but meddling in the work of others. Now…

> not doing their own work but meddling in the work of others

Sounds like Stalin, Putin and others like them.

Post reply on HN