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Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

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Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#21

Post by tgv »

hearsathought wrote: post #18
lordleft wrote: post #7

Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He is able to condense so much complexity into his works, and he speaks to the heart as equally as he speaks to the intellect. He is proof that the mind and the heart do not have to be at cross purposes, but can be wholly engaged together when stimulated by sublime works of art.

> Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He's aight. Obviously you enjoy his music and that's fine. But have you experienced all the art from all cultures through all human history to make such authorative statements on such subjective matters?

This is a riposte at the level of "Then name all composers. Nanananana." Obviously, the answer to your question is going to be "no," but really a great amount of music is available to us, and everything that came before the Renaissance was, crudely put, simple music. So the commenter can be considered to be able to weigh Bach's merits against those of other artists'.

IMO too, Bach is the greatest. There's really no-one who can so seamlessly merge content and form and achieve intellectually, musically and emotionally fulfilling results.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#22

Post by dabluecaboose »

reactordev wrote: post #20
lordleft wrote: post #7

Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He is able to condense so much complexity into his works, and he speaks to the heart as equally as he speaks to the intellect. He is proof that the mind and the heart do not have to be at cross purposes, but can be wholly engaged together when stimulated by sublime works of art.

That’s debatable. Mozart was good too. But my real OG is Camille Saint-Saens. You want dark and moody? Light and fluffy? Dazzles and sparkles? He’s your man.

Danse macabre is a true masterpiece. Incredible composer.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#23

Post by lordleft »

hearsathought wrote: post #18
lordleft wrote: post #7

Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He is able to condense so much complexity into his works, and he speaks to the heart as equally as he speaks to the intellect. He is proof that the mind and the heart do not have to be at cross purposes, but can be wholly engaged together when stimulated by sublime works of art.

> Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He's aight. Obviously you enjoy his music and that's fine. But have you experienced all the art from all cultures through all human history to make such authorative statements on such subjective matters?

I understand that a comment such as mine would rankle. I acknowledge that art is subjective, that there's no accounting for taste, etc. And yet, I don't really believe that, deep down. If I did, I'm not entirely sure how I could speak meaningfully to the differences between great and no so great art. Is War and Peace really as good as any other novel? Would it be possible for any two people to meaningfully communicate about art, if it really all boils down to mere instinctual taste? I think there must be more, even if I can't quite prove it. But I will acknowledge that I can't point to some objective rubric that obtains across all art when I say what I say.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#24

Post by stevenjgarner »

hearsathought wrote: post #18
lordleft wrote: post #7

Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He is able to condense so much complexity into his works, and he speaks to the heart as equally as he speaks to the intellect. He is proof that the mind and the heart do not have to be at cross purposes, but can be wholly engaged together when stimulated by sublime works of art.

> Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He's aight. Obviously you enjoy his music and that's fine. But have you experienced all the art from all cultures through all human history to make such authorative statements on such subjective matters?

Thank you and upvote to the OP for posting this. I love Bach and place him on a pedestal of my own.

Personally I lack the physiological or cultural understanding of the significance of Tuvan Throat Singing [1] and why "Kongurei" (Konggurei / 60 Horses) is often described as the most beautiful and heartbreaking song in the Tuvan Throat Singing (Khoomei) repertoire.

I also get that the Javanese gamelan orchestral masterpiece "Ketawang Puspawarna" [2] is widely cited as the candidate for the "most important, beautiful, and pivotal" global composition. So much so, that NASA included it on the Voyager spacecraft Golden Record in 1977 (side 2 track 2, together with 3 compositions of J.S. Bach). But I probably lack the aesthetic fabric to fully comprehend or appreciate its significance.

[1] Tuvan Throat Singing, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx8hrhBZJ98

[2] Ketawang Puspawarna, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Irt2AsxYYnI

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#25

Post by dylan604 »

hodgehog11 wrote: post #9
lordleft wrote: post #7

Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He is able to condense so much complexity into his works, and he speaks to the heart as equally as he speaks to the intellect. He is proof that the mind and the heart do not have to be at cross purposes, but can be wholly engaged together when stimulated by sublime works of art.

Do you have any particular pieces in mind when you wrote this? Bach is impressive, no doubt, but to each their own perhaps. I acknowledge that I have not received the appropriate training to fully appreciate the complexity in his works, so I wish I could hear what you do. To my ear, (and this isn't a novel opinion in the slightest), I think the Baroque era was more limited in expression due to the inherent limitation…

> But one wonders what he could have made without those constraints.

I had a friend that said if Mozart/Bach/et al had access to modern music production equipment, they'd all write psytrance. But it is just another example of "take great talent from long ago and put them in modern day" comparisons.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#26

Post by dylan604 »

tgv wrote: post #8

I listened to them the other day, and I can't say I find them interesting additions to the Bach repertoire, certainly not in comparison to works that date to just a few years later.

Maybe that's why he didn't sign them? Maybe he was on rough times, and just took a gig to write a studio jingle for some corporate presentation of the day just to get paid. Was able to pay rent, and keep working on his other work.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#27

Post by mrbonner »

lordleft wrote: post #7

Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He is able to condense so much complexity into his works, and he speaks to the heart as equally as he speaks to the intellect. He is proof that the mind and the heart do not have to be at cross purposes, but can be wholly engaged together when stimulated by sublime works of art.

And if you don't agree with me, I don't have to explain to you!

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#28

Post by PotatoPancakes »

hodgehog11 wrote: post #9
lordleft wrote: post #7

Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He is able to condense so much complexity into his works, and he speaks to the heart as equally as he speaks to the intellect. He is proof that the mind and the heart do not have to be at cross purposes, but can be wholly engaged together when stimulated by sublime works of art.

Do you have any particular pieces in mind when you wrote this? Bach is impressive, no doubt, but to each their own perhaps. I acknowledge that I have not received the appropriate training to fully appreciate the complexity in his works, so I wish I could hear what you do. To my ear, (and this isn't a novel opinion in the slightest), I think the Baroque era was more limited in expression due to the inherent limitation…

Bach's most approachable music might be his cello suites.

But also, I think there are two camps of fans of "classical music" (by which I mean music in the styles: Baroque, Classical, Romantic, Impressionist, etc). There are those who listen to the music, and those who play it.

For the most part, those who only listen to music often prefer Romantic and Impressionist styles. From the moody and dramatic to the gentle and contemplative, these styles are very approachable to the untrained ear.

But those who play an instrument (or sing in a choir) spend lots of time practicing and rehearsing and interpreting the music as it's written on the page. This extra time makes all of the little nuances of Baroque music truly come to life. The classic example is Bach's Crab Canon, which is a fine little piece of music... but once you realize that the whole thing is a palindrome, and you can actively appreciate how the same parts work in a forward and backward context, it becomes really interesting and pleasant.

So if Bach doesn't do it for you, and you play an instrument, try diving into playing it yourself.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#29

Post by reactordev »

dabluecaboose wrote: post #22
reactordev wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s debatable. Mozart was good too. But my real OG is Camille Saint-Saens. You want dark and moody? Light and fluffy? Dazzles and sparkles? He’s your man.

Danse macabre is a true masterpiece. Incredible composer.

Carnival of the Animals is better…

Aquarium was my sons childhood theme song

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#30

Post by lo_zamoyski »

lordleft wrote: post #14
hodgehog11 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any particular pieces in mind when you wrote this? Bach is impressive, no doubt, but to each their own perhaps. I acknowledge that I have not received the appropriate training to fully appreciate the complexity in his works, so I wish I could hear what you do. To my ear, (and this isn't a novel opinion in the slightest), I think the Baroque era was more limited in expression due to the inherent limitation…

Sure! When I think of why I love Bach, I often think of works where he demonstrates an ability to express often conflicting emotions at the same time. For example, in St. Mathew’s Passion, there’s a famous piece entitled “Mache Dich, Mein Herze” — it’s sung at a part where the followers of Christ are laying his body to rest, and somehow merges genuine despair with hope, representing the promise of resurrection. I thi…

I presume you know Zelenka as well, a contemporary of Bach's (both knew each other and respected each other as composers).
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