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Chuck Moore: Colorforth has stopped working [video]

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Re: Chuck Moore: Colorforth has stopped working [video]

#21

Post by 7thaccount »

beachy wrote: post #14
anyfoo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's quite a dichotomy here. He can exercise his brain and ward off cognitive decline without working on Colorforth specifically...

Some people have trouble doing meaningless intellectual pursuits like crosswords, sudoku etc. Working on Colorforth might be the greatest meaning in his life.

He himself said he didn't think it was worth it anymore and that he very rarely codes now. I respect him enough to assume he has some other pursuit more worthy of his attention.

Re: Chuck Moore: Colorforth has stopped working [video]

#22

Post by nostrademons »

saulpw wrote: post #18
nostrademons wrote: post #12

I wonder sometimes if there's an earlier level of technology that society could basically "checkpoint" at and freeze, and then build off of. Capitalism today feels like it's hit the Red Queen Paradox - it goes around and around to keep the money flowing, but with very little actual progress. Indeed, most people seem to feel like the world is getting worse for all that work, and that many of the innovations of the las…

What level of computing would you checkpoint at? https://saul.pw/mag/computer/

Using your scale? ↑7 or ↑8. That seemed to be the sweet spot in capabilities to me, without getting to the point where engagement eats everything else including productivity and future maintenance.

Using semiconductor process nodes? 45-65nm. That was around the point that Moore's Law broke down. At that point, you could do most of the functionality that we depend upon computers for (eg. GUIs, 3D rendering, networking, basic machine-learning, some speech recognition and text synthesis). It also roughly corresponds to ↑7 or ↑8 on your scale, so it's self-consistent.

Conceptually? I'd like to have multiple checkpoints, so that if the ecosystem gets borked you can roll back further.

Re: Chuck Moore: Colorforth has stopped working [video]

#24

Post by bitwize »

aaron_m04 wrote: post #13
delish wrote: post #3

Posting a quick TL;DW. A minute into the video Chuck Moore says that Windows updates (on 11 and 10) have caused colorForth to crash, with Chuck thinking it's a graphical problem. I may comment more, but I wanted to post this because I don't see it mentioned as a youtube comment.

I could've sworn I saw something in the last month or two about BITBLT or DirectX changes on Windows.

It wouldn't surprise me to find that Windows is now flagging and quarantining unsigned, unfamiliar executables that it catches making these draw calls or really any direct Win32 calls. Microsoft, and in particular Windows Defender which you can't really turn off anymore, has gotten pretty aggressive about blocking software for "security purposes".

Re: Chuck Moore: Colorforth has stopped working [video]

#25

Post by computably »

beachy wrote: post #8
7thaccount wrote: post #7

It is sad to see. I understand where he is coming from though. He is 87 and doesn't think recoding a super niche' software tool is the best use of what very well may be his last few years of life. He still seems super sharp though and is a major inspiration.

What would be the best use of his last few years? Sitting in an easy chair by the pool? Using your last few years to exercise your brain and ward off cognitive decline might be the best way to ensure those last few years are fulfilling and not just marking time before the end.

Perhaps he has chosen the best use of his last few years to his own satisfaction, and doesn't feel the need to share every last detail about himself on the internet.

Re: Chuck Moore: Colorforth has stopped working [video]

#26

Post by anadem »

atherton94027 wrote: post #4

Very impressive to see Chuck Moore still going at it at the age of 87. I hope at that age I'm able to handle the minutiae of programming!

Totally! At 87 that's gutsy! My very first paid programming work was in Forth on a 6502 platform in the '60s, building a networked accounting and flow management program for a water company, but I'm now 81 and very glad to be retired.

Re: Chuck Moore: Colorforth has stopped working [video]

#27

Post by computably »

nostrademons wrote: post #12

I wonder sometimes if there's an earlier level of technology that society could basically "checkpoint" at and freeze, and then build off of. Capitalism today feels like it's hit the Red Queen Paradox - it goes around and around to keep the money flowing, but with very little actual progress. Indeed, most people seem to feel like the world is getting worse for all that work, and that many of the innovations of the las…

Why is your premise that this state of society is intrinsically caused by technological progress? The issues you describe seem to me a product of general economic trends.

Re: Chuck Moore: Colorforth has stopped working [video]

#28

Post by eternityforest »

bitwize wrote: post #16
delish wrote: post #3

Posting a quick TL;DW. A minute into the video Chuck Moore says that Windows updates (on 11 and 10) have caused colorForth to crash, with Chuck thinking it's a graphical problem. I may comment more, but I wanted to post this because I don't see it mentioned as a youtube comment.

Did Microsoft seriously deprecate BitBlt and 2D draw calls? If so, it seems as if Windows is undergoing a Waylandization. "Yeah, we went ahead and removed those because they're legacy. Modern rendering pipelines don't work that way anymore." I don't WANT a rendering pipeline! I want a surface, and to make calls to scribble on it! That's it!

I'm guessing a lot of the legacy stuff that still uses it also depends on some other things they wanted to change too?

Re: Chuck Moore: Colorforth has stopped working [video]

#29

Post by eternityforest »

beachy wrote: post #8
7thaccount wrote: post #7

It is sad to see. I understand where he is coming from though. He is 87 and doesn't think recoding a super niche' software tool is the best use of what very well may be his last few years of life. He still seems super sharp though and is a major inspiration.

What would be the best use of his last few years? Sitting in an easy chair by the pool? Using your last few years to exercise your brain and ward off cognitive decline might be the best way to ensure those last few years are fulfilling and not just marking time before the end.

He specifically mentions hiking and staying healthy, I'd imagine he's not going to stop using his brain completely.

Re: Chuck Moore: Colorforth has stopped working [video]

#30

Post by anyfoo »

beachy wrote: post #14
anyfoo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's quite a dichotomy here. He can exercise his brain and ward off cognitive decline without working on Colorforth specifically...

Some people have trouble doing meaningless intellectual pursuits like crosswords, sudoku etc. Working on Colorforth might be the greatest meaning in his life.

Still the same dichotomy. Who's to say his other pursuits are "meaningless", and the likes of crosswords, sudoku, etc.? For all we know he might have some other projects that he considers more useful.

He does not think working on Colorforth is worth it anymore, so it could actually be detrimental to do so.

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