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Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

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Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#21
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could not find any evidence that sparse models work better than dense models.

All of the best open source LLMs right now use mixture-of-experts, which is a form of sparsity. They only use a small fraction of their parameters to process any given token. Examples: - GPT OSS 120b - Kimi K2 - DeepSeek R1

Mixture of experts sparsity is very different from weight sparsity. In a mixture of experts, all weights are nonzero, but only a small fraction get used on each input. On the other hand, weight sparsity means only very few weights are nonzero, but every weight is used on every input. Of course, the two techniques can also be combined.

Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#22
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the best open source LLMs right now use mixture-of-experts, which is a form of sparsity. They only use a small fraction of their parameters to process any given token. Examples: - GPT OSS 120b - Kimi K2 - DeepSeek R1

Mixture of experts sparsity is very different from weight sparsity. In a mixture of experts, all weights are nonzero, but only a small fraction get used on each input. On the other hand, weight sparsity means only very few weights are nonzero, but every weight is used on every input. Of course, the two techniques can also be combined.

Correct. I was more focused on giving an example of sparsity being useful in general, because the comment I was replying didn't specifically mention which kind of sparsity.

For weight sparsity, I know the BitNet 1.58 paper has some claims of improved performance by restricting weights to be either -1, 0, or 1, eliminating the need for multiplying by the weights, and allowing the weights with a value of 0 to be ignored entirely.

Another kind of sparsity, while on the topic is activation sparsity. I think there was an Nvidia paper that used a modified ReLU activation function to make more of the models activations set to 0.

Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#23
post #20
post #9

We really need new hardware optimized for sparse compute. Deep Learning models would work way better with much higher dimensional sparse vectors but current hardware only excels at dense GMMs and structured sparsity.

For what it's worth, we think it's unfortunately quite unlikely that frontier models will ever be trained with extreme unstructured sparsity, even with custom sparsity optimized hardware. Our main hope is that understanding sub-frontier models can still help a lot with ensuring safety of frontier models; an interpretable GPT-3 would be a very valuable object to have. It may also be possible to adapt our method to onl…

As the lead author, why do you think so?

Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#24

I find this fascinating, as it raises the possibility of a single framework that can unify neural and symbolic computation by "defuzzing" activations into what are effectively symbols. Has anyone looked at the possibility of going the other way, by fuzzifying logical computation?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probabilistic_logic

More generally, machine learning is all about dealing with imprecision, including logic.

Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#25

I find this fascinating, as it raises the possibility of a single framework that can unify neural and symbolic computation by "defuzzing" activations into what are effectively symbols. Has anyone looked at the possibility of going the other way, by fuzzifying logical computation?

There's been some work (e.g RASP - https://arxiv.org/abs/2106.06981) on taking logical computations and compiling them into transformer weights.

Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#26
post #3

This ties directly into the superposition theory. It is believed dense models cram many features into shared weights, making circuits hard to interpret. Sparsity reduces that pressure by giving features more isolated space, so individual neurons are more likely to represent a single, interpretable concept.

Yes, although the sparsity doesn't need to be inherent to the model - another approach is to try to decode the learned weights using approaches like sparse auto-encoders or transcoders. https://transformer-circuits.pub/2025/attribution-graphs/met...

I'm also very excited about SAE/Transcoder based approaches! I think the big tradeoff is that our approach (circuit sparsity) is aiming for a full complete understanding at any cost, whereas Anthropic's Attribution Graph approach is more immediately applicable to frontier models, but gives handwavier circuits. It turns out "any cost" is really quite a lot of cost - we think this cost can be reduced a lot with further research, but it means our main results are on very small models, and the path to applying any of this to frontier models involves a lot more research risk. So if accepting a bit of handwaviness lets us immediately do useful things on frontier models, this seems like a worthwhile direction to explore.

See also some work we've done on scaling SAEs: https://arxiv.org/abs/2406.04093

Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#27
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mixture of experts sparsity is very different from weight sparsity. In a mixture of experts, all weights are nonzero, but only a small fraction get used on each input. On the other hand, weight sparsity means only very few weights are nonzero, but every weight is used on every input. Of course, the two techniques can also be combined.

Correct. I was more focused on giving an example of sparsity being useful in general, because the comment I was replying didn't specifically mention which kind of sparsity. For weight sparsity, I know the BitNet 1.58 paper has some claims of improved performance by restricting weights to be either -1, 0, or 1, eliminating the need for multiplying by the weights, and allowing the weights with a value of 0 to be ignore…

“Useful” does not mean “better”. It just means “we could not do dense”. All modern state of the art models use dense layers (both weight and inputs). Quantization is also used to make models smaller and faster, but never better in terms of quality.

Based on all examples I’ve seen so far in this thread it’s clear there’s no evidence that sparse models actually work better than dense models.

Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#28
post #20
post #9

We really need new hardware optimized for sparse compute. Deep Learning models would work way better with much higher dimensional sparse vectors but current hardware only excels at dense GMMs and structured sparsity.

For what it's worth, we think it's unfortunately quite unlikely that frontier models will ever be trained with extreme unstructured sparsity, even with custom sparsity optimized hardware. Our main hope is that understanding sub-frontier models can still help a lot with ensuring safety of frontier models; an interpretable GPT-3 would be a very valuable object to have. It may also be possible to adapt our method to onl…

yeah it's not happening anytime soon, especially with the whole economy betting trillions of dollars on brute fore scaling of transformers on manhattan sized GPU farms that will use more energy than most mid western states.

Brains do it somehow, so sparsely / locally activated architectures are probably the way to go long term, but we're decades away from that being commercially viable.

Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#29
post #17
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could not find any evidence that sparse models work better than dense models.

https://transformer-circuits.pub/2022/toy_model/index.html https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.03635 EDIT: don't have time to write it up, but here's gemini 3 with a short explanation: To simulate the brain's efficiency using Transformer-like architectures, we would need to fundamentally alter three layers of the stack: the *mathematical representation* (moving to high dimensions), the *computational model* (moving to sparsit…

I’m not sure why you’re talking about efficiency when the question is “do sparse models work better than dense models?” The answer is no, they don’t.

Even the old LTH paper you cited trains a dense model and then tries to prune it without too much quality loss. Pruning is a well known method to compress models - to make them smaller and faster, not better.

Re: Weight-sparse transformers have interpretable circuits [pdf]

#30
post #23
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, we think it's unfortunately quite unlikely that frontier models will ever be trained with extreme unstructured sparsity, even with custom sparsity optimized hardware. Our main hope is that understanding sub-frontier models can still help a lot with ensuring safety of frontier models; an interpretable GPT-3 would be a very valuable object to have. It may also be possible to adapt our method to onl…

As the lead author, why do you think so?

I'm not an expert at hardware, so take this with a grain of salt, but there are two main reasons:

- Discrete optimisation is always going to be harder than continuous optimization. Learning the right sparsity mask is fundamentally a very discrete operation. So even just matching fully continuous dense models in optimization efficiency is likely to be difficult. Though perhaps we can get some hope from the fact that MoE is also similarly fundamentally discrete, and it works in practice (we can think of MoE as incurring some penalty from imperfect gating, which is more than offset by the systems benefits of not having to run all the experts on every forward pass). Also, the optimization problem gets harder when the backwards pass needs to be entirely sparsified computation (see appendix B).

- Dense matmuls are just fundamentally nicer to implement in hardware. Systolic arrays have nice predictable data flows that are very local. Sparse matmuls with the same number of flops nominally only need (up to a multiplicative factor) the same memory bandwidth as an equivalent dense matmul, but they need to be able to route data from any memory unit to any vector compute unit - the locality of dense matmuls means that the computation of each tile only requires a small slice of both input matrices, so we only need to load those slices into shared memory; on the other hand, because GPU-to-GPU transfers are way slower, when we op-shard matmuls, we replicate the data that is needed. Sparse matmuls would need either more replication within each compute die, or more all-to-all internal bandwidth. This means spending way more die space on huge crossbars and routing. This would cost a lot of die space, though thankfully, the crossbars consume much less power than actual compute, so perhaps this could match dense in energy efficiency and not make thermals worse.

It also seems very likely that once we create the interpretable GPT-1 (or 2, or 3) we will find that making everything unstructured sparse was overkill, and there are much more efficient pretraining constraints we can apply to models to 80/20 the interpretability. In general, a lot of my hope routes through learning things like this from the intermediate artifact (interpretable GPT-n).

To be clear, it doesn't seem literally impossible that with great effort, we could create custom hardware, and vastly improve the optimization algorithms, etc, such that weight-sparse models could be vaguely close in performance to weight-dense models. It's plausible that with better optimization the win from arbitrary connectivity patterns might offset the hardware difficulties, and I could be overlooking something that would make the cost less than I expect. But this would require immense effort and investment to merely match current models, so it seems quite unrealistic compared to learning something from interpretable GPT-3 that helps us understand GPT-5.

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