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Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#21

Post by beedogs »

It's utterly fucked how restrictive and exploitative the US immigration system really is.

It cost me about $5000 of my own money and a year and a half of my own time to become a permanent resident of Australia, with no advanced degree and no cash reserve needed. That route is literally impossible for potential U.S. immigrants. You either have to marry your way in, play the greencard lottery, have a PhD, or buy your way in via an investor-class visa.

The alternative, if you can get one, is an H1-B visa that ties you to a single employer who's free to take full advantage of your situation for half a decade. And this is what Microsoft wants more of.

Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#22

Post by mseebach »

wheelerwj wrote: post #18
mseebach wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are you implying that if it was feasible it would be done already? You brought up the fact that there are 12 million workless, as a counter to Microsoft's desire to hire H1-B labor. If that's not to suggest they could fill those positions, what's the relevancy? > Microsoft could invest 40-50k a year into people who qualify for retraining either in house or at local universities and still come out ahead. Uhm, 40-50k…

cool, so MS can send 6000 people to harvard for a CS degree while having them work on some menial code/internship in the mean time.

Yes, that's at least 12 times more expensive then the $10k.

Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#23

Post by lusr »

mseebach wrote: post #17
lusr wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've nailed it. As a highly skilled foreigner who's looking to emigrate, most employment visas in the countries I've looked at effectively force you to become a slave to the company sponsoring you for at least 5 years before you can even begin claiming residence status; the H-1B visa is one such visa [1]. Whilst that may be okay if you're in your early 20s or from a country with very limited options, for an older p…

From the link: Historically, H-1B holders have sometimes been described as indentured servants, and while the comparison is no longer as compelling, it had more validity prior to the passage of American Competitiveness in the Twenty-First Century Act of 2000. And in the section on American Competitiveness in the Twenty-First Century Act of 2000: Because of AC21, the H-1B employee is free to change jobs if they have a…

An I-485 is "Application to Register Permanent Residence or Adjust Status". You can only apply for an I-485 after 5 years of residency. That means after 5.5 years you may freely change jobs - to a similar position. For those 5.5 years you're still vulnerable to discriminatory treatment. I'm not sure if "similar position" means you could form your own company.

If I were 21 again - no brainer. Unfortunately I'm nearly 30 and would be setting myself backwards if I did it now. It makes more sense to spend time establishing myself locally and using that to put myself into a more favourable negotiating position with a sponsor in the future with respect to emigration. Alternatively I may choose a country with more sensible emigration policies (e.g. Australia, UK if they reinstate their highly skilled migrant quota) and then the US loses out.

Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#24

Post by SeckinJohn »

toyg wrote: post #8

A one-off $10K fee per hire is chump change, compared to the alternative: if your H1-B costs 50K per year + 10K one-off, he's still much cheaper than a US-based developer who wants 60K per-year -- and that's not exactly the top going rate. Corporations understand Marx much better than workers ever did.

It is not legal to underpay H1Bs. They literally should not be able to fill those positions with Americans if they are complaining about this.

Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#25

Post by mseebach »

lusr wrote: post #23
mseebach wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the link: Historically, H-1B holders have sometimes been described as indentured servants, and while the comparison is no longer as compelling, it had more validity prior to the passage of American Competitiveness in the Twenty-First Century Act of 2000. And in the section on American Competitiveness in the Twenty-First Century Act of 2000: Because of AC21, the H-1B employee is free to change jobs if they have a…

An I-485 is "Application to Register Permanent Residence or Adjust Status". You can only apply for an I-485 after 5 years of residency. That means after 5.5 years you may freely change jobs - to a similar position. For those 5.5 years you're still vulnerable to discriminatory treatment. I'm not sure if "similar position" means you could form your own company. If I were 21 again - no brainer. Unfortunately I'm nearly…

As far as I can tell, you can submit the I-140 immediately after arrival, processing takes about 6 months if you don't apply for "premium processing". Then you can apply for I-485, which then needs to be pending for 6 months - ie. you're only stuck for a year. But I could be wrong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Permanent_Residen...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priority_date

Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#26

Post by joshz »

toyg wrote: post #8

A one-off $10K fee per hire is chump change, compared to the alternative: if your H1-B costs 50K per year + 10K one-off, he's still much cheaper than a US-based developer who wants 60K per-year -- and that's not exactly the top going rate. Corporations understand Marx much better than workers ever did.

Microsoft doesn't pay that low. Here's[1] some data from 2 years back. Friend of mine got over 100k last year, they treat H1-B holders well.

[1] http://goo.gl/P0UCj

Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#27

Post by Nitramp »

toyg wrote: post #8

A one-off $10K fee per hire is chump change, compared to the alternative: if your H1-B costs 50K per year + 10K one-off, he's still much cheaper than a US-based developer who wants 60K per-year -- and that's not exactly the top going rate. Corporations understand Marx much better than workers ever did.

You're neglecting the salary of the employee that you hired in that, aren't you? The 60k are on top of the salary you're paying, which would typically be comparable to the US-based developer's.

Companies don't hire people on H1B to save money, but because they are starving for talent.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't understand that you referred to the employee's salary with the 50K. Are you assuming that H1B employees are payed less in general?

Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#28

Post by dschiptsov »

How many years could pass, until they will figure out and develop a the same development process that brings Linux kernel and other wonders to us - a collaboration of engineers around the globe?

But wait, that means all you need is gcc, emacs, git sometimes ssh and internet connection and Paypall (sic.) account? How could they sell all that disconnected from reality, bloated crap they produce, spending billions per year?

The answer is quite easy - in order to get 200+k salaries and bonuses managers must maintain this bloated hierarchy and fabric-style sweatshops. Otherwise, who needs them?

But the real question is - why we still care about MS? Who cares about old Nokia phones or Delphi or Java or things like Novell Netware?))

Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#29

Post by toyg »

SeckinJohn wrote: post #24
toyg wrote: post #8

A one-off $10K fee per hire is chump change, compared to the alternative: if your H1-B costs 50K per year + 10K one-off, he's still much cheaper than a US-based developer who wants 60K per-year -- and that's not exactly the top going rate. Corporations understand Marx much better than workers ever did.

It is not legal to underpay H1Bs. They literally should not be able to fill those positions with Americans if they are complaining about this.

I'm curious to know which sort of rocket science Microsoft does that is not taught at US universities.

Of course they are unable to fill positions at a given salary level. It's quite hard to find tomato-pickers at slave-like wages.

Re: Microsoft: 'To fill 6,000 jobs, we'll pay $10K per visa'

#30

Post by lrobb »

SeckinJohn wrote: post #24
toyg wrote: post #8

A one-off $10K fee per hire is chump change, compared to the alternative: if your H1-B costs 50K per year + 10K one-off, he's still much cheaper than a US-based developer who wants 60K per-year -- and that's not exactly the top going rate. Corporations understand Marx much better than workers ever did.

It is not legal to underpay H1Bs. They literally should not be able to fill those positions with Americans if they are complaining about this.

It might not be legal, but it's easy to do.
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