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US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

thedailybeast.com

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Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#21

Post by dylan604 »

mothballed wrote: post #4

It's wild ATC isn't funded by use fees instead of being appropriated by congress. Seems like a good opportunity to provide some mechanism so the government has to shit or get off the pot, because if the government won't do the job the airlines would surely be glad to pay for the service themselves.

> the airlines would surely be glad to pay for the service themselves.

No, they would be glad to increase fares so that the flying customers pay for the service themselves. Currently, ATC is subsidized by all tax payers. Your method moves the burden to only those that pay for fares. I'm just pointing it out not saying it is good/bad.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#22

Post by tayo42 »

8note wrote: post #8

why are traffic controllers government employees at all? wouldn't it be better for the government to maintain a standards/licensing body and only have a couple on staff as a "traffic controllers of last resort" during emergencies? when an traffic controller quits, what job can they go to? clearly not another airport

Why would it be better to have this job be driven by profit?

It's a service provided to the public. Seems like a natural fit for being run by government. The only thing is this funding situation for this government is dumb. Otherwise we wouldn't be talking about it.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#23

Post by grebc »

nostrademons wrote: post #11
e40 wrote: post #3

Remember, the pain this is causing everyone means less to the people in power than does the benefits of this shutdown (to them). We can argue about what those benefits are all day long, but they wouldn't be refusing to have discussions with the Dems if there were not some benefit, be it political power they can wield, or whatever.

It's interesting how the effects of filter bubbles are playing out here. Everyone believes that they have the upper hand and the majority of the American people are on their side, because computerized personalization shows them only opinions from people who agree with them. As a result, they think that the negative popular opinion for the shutdown will fall primarily on the other party, and so it is rational for them…

Reminds me of the dysfunction the Roman Republic towards the end of it’s time.

It’s not unique to the US however, I think maybe we are all approaching the end of the line for current political/civil systems without further work that no one seems interested in taking.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#24

Post by lesuorac »

nostrademons wrote: post #11
e40 wrote: post #3

Remember, the pain this is causing everyone means less to the people in power than does the benefits of this shutdown (to them). We can argue about what those benefits are all day long, but they wouldn't be refusing to have discussions with the Dems if there were not some benefit, be it political power they can wield, or whatever.

It's interesting how the effects of filter bubbles are playing out here. Everyone believes that they have the upper hand and the majority of the American people are on their side, because computerized personalization shows them only opinions from people who agree with them. As a result, they think that the negative popular opinion for the shutdown will fall primarily on the other party, and so it is rational for them…

[flagged]

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#25

Post by pwthornton »

8note wrote: post #8

why are traffic controllers government employees at all? wouldn't it be better for the government to maintain a standards/licensing body and only have a couple on staff as a "traffic controllers of last resort" during emergencies? when an traffic controller quits, what job can they go to? clearly not another airport

It's probably because a lot of smaller airports in the middle of nowhere would be hard to get coverage for. The current system sends controllers to where they are needed, not to where people want to work.

Now, should more productive parts of the country be subsidizing air travel in less productive parts of the country? That's for you to decide.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#26

Post by actionfromafar »

slg wrote: post #16

I know many of the people reading this will think I'm being hysterical. But there was a small voice in the back of my mind when the shutdown started wondering whether that version of the American government would ever reopen and that voice has started to become much louder in recent days. Specifically the combination of this, the handling of SNAP benefits, and this all happening in November just seems intentionally d…

That’s MAGA for you.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#27

Post by grebc »

slashdev wrote: post #18
montroser wrote: post #2

What is Trump's endgame here? Everyone stranded for Thanksgiving, poor kids going hungry, all for...what, exactly?

Why do you blame Trump for the shutdown? Isn't it caused by Congress basically failing to agree on a funding continuation? (I think it's been ages since they could actually go further and agree on a budget). Government shutdowns are common under both Republican and Democrat administrations. You can say he refuses to compromise, but clearly so does the other side, hence the impasse.

Republican Congress is in his pocket. If he wanted a compromise you bet your bottom dollar it would happen.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#28

Post by inglor_cz »

bobthepanda wrote: post #12
mothballed wrote: post #4

It's wild ATC isn't funded by use fees instead of being appropriated by congress. Seems like a good opportunity to provide some mechanism so the government has to shit or get off the pot, because if the government won't do the job the airlines would surely be glad to pay for the service themselves.

It kind of is https://www.faa.gov/about/budget/aatf The problem is that tax collection also happens with congressional approval.

This seems to be a somewhat inefficient system. There is no absolute need to consider aviation fees to be taxes and collect them through a federal agency.

Individual airports should be capable of financing their local ATC as they see fit, be it their own airport fees or, IDK, a surcharge on hamburgers sold in the local McD or a gift from a wealthy sponsor; and they should only have a duty to maintain certain technical standards.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#29

Post by ecshafer »

slg wrote: post #16

I know many of the people reading this will think I'm being hysterical. But there was a small voice in the back of my mind when the shutdown started wondering whether that version of the American government would ever reopen and that voice has started to become much louder in recent days. Specifically the combination of this, the handling of SNAP benefits, and this all happening in November just seems intentionally d…

[flagged]

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#30

Post by summa_tech »

lesuorac wrote: post #24
nostrademons wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting how the effects of filter bubbles are playing out here. Everyone believes that they have the upper hand and the majority of the American people are on their side, because computerized personalization shows them only opinions from people who agree with them. As a result, they think that the negative popular opinion for the shutdown will fall primarily on the other party, and so it is rational for them…

[flagged]

What does the Supreme Court or White House have to do with the bipartisan agreement between Senate garbagepersons to retain the insane filibuster policy that guarantees non-resolution of simple deadlocks?
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