USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps • Hacker News Board

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#21

Post by pseudalopex » Tue, Nov 04, 2025, 6:01 PM UTC

throwaway378400 wrote: post #13

pseudalopex wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forbidding charging SNAP recipients more is reasonable. Why is it reasonable to forbid charging SNAP recipients less?

I was thinking the same thing, it feels neutral at best, but anything potentially bad about it is probably for non-program members. If you give SNAP beneficiaries a discount that isn't gov subsidised, all things same everyone not in SNAP might theoretically pay more. It sounds reasonable, but tinfoil time, unless they normally have people watching this, it feels like the USDA was told or anticipated this. So much of…

> If you give SNAP beneficiaries a discount that isn't gov subsidised, all things same everyone not in SNAP might theoretically pay more.

SNAP increases demand for eligible goods. Increased demand increases prices.

People pay taxes to fund SNAP. Private discounts for SNAP recipients could reduce SNAP expenses theoretically.

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#22

Post by tpmoney » Tue, Nov 04, 2025, 6:02 PM UTC

pseudalopex wrote: post #10

chasd00 wrote: post #6

Read the article and then you'll put away your pitchforks. A basic rule is snap recipients can't be treated differently than non-program members which seems reasonable. "At issue is SNAP’s “Equal Treatment Rule,” which bars stores from either discriminating against people in the program or offering them favorable treatment. "

Forbidding charging SNAP recipients more is reasonable. Why is it reasonable to forbid charging SNAP recipients less?

It a consumer protection and fair competition thing (and probably anti-fraud too). There are similar rules in place for medicare/medicaid too. Gifts of any kind to induce a patient to choose your facility over any other are forbidden. That's why if you look really closely at ads at pharmacies encouraging Medicare/Medicaid people to switch, even though they talk about all these free things, they're all things that are free if you're on Medicare/Medicaid regardless of what facility you choose. I worked for a place one time that was sued by the feds for giving a $10 grocery store gift card to Medicare/Medicaid recipients if they were the source of a referral. The referral didn't even have to use the company's services, just answer they heard about them from X patient if and when they called for more information. But that was enough to be considered a violation of the laws.

I think the broad theory goes that people receiving these benefits are in pretty tight financial straights and some benefit or discount that might be "nice" to someone else is "essential" to them and may cause them to use your services even when that isn't the best use of their benefits for the purposes of those benefits.

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#23

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF » Tue, Nov 04, 2025, 6:11 PM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #16

chasd00 wrote: post #6

Read the article and then you'll put away your pitchforks. A basic rule is snap recipients can't be treated differently than non-program members which seems reasonable. "At issue is SNAP’s “Equal Treatment Rule,” which bars stores from either discriminating against people in the program or offering them favorable treatment. "

I've still got my pitchfork out. As the reminder says, discounts are allowed with a USDA waiver, so they should either offer a temporary blanket waiver or suggest some better way to mitigate the impact on SNAP recipients.

> they should either offer a temporary blanket waiver or suggest some better way to mitigate the impact on SNAP recipients

Without something like this, why should one assume good faith behind the change? The people chanting "the cruelty is the point" seem to be vindicated rather clearly.

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#24

Post by taylodl » Tue, Nov 04, 2025, 6:14 PM UTC

chasd00 wrote: post #6

Read the article and then you'll put away your pitchforks. A basic rule is snap recipients can't be treated differently than non-program members which seems reasonable. "At issue is SNAP’s “Equal Treatment Rule,” which bars stores from either discriminating against people in the program or offering them favorable treatment. "

Are you familiar with the term "malicious compliance"?

Brought to you by the administration who doesn't see fit to follow any other law, but boy oh boy will they enforce it if it hurts others. Sorry - it's evil.

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#25

Post by altairprime » Tue, Nov 04, 2025, 6:18 PM UTC

ElevenLathe wrote: post #19

sslayer wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be a fair program it should not cause an undue burden on the participating stores. Store A could advertise that it will provide a 10% discount to SNAP recipients. Now Stores B,C,D,etc.. have to match or beat to be competitive. This would ultimately introduce competitiveness into the market where it was meant to assist those less fortunate.

Offering a discount is assisting the less fortunate, as far as I can tell: They will get more food per dollar on their bridge card, costing the government less. This is (almost) the same dynamic as forbidding Medicare to negotiate drug prices, isn't it? I suppose chains could work around this by just lowering prices in neighborhoods with a lot of people on SNAP, which would actually be even better IMO, because it mea…

To do that without being abused by rich bargain-hunters, you can add in the Costco membership model with geo-discounted signups.

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#26

Post by pseudalopex » Tue, Nov 04, 2025, 6:21 PM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #20

pseudalopex wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forbidding charging SNAP recipients more is reasonable. Why is it reasonable to forbid charging SNAP recipients less?

The relevant regulation ( https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-7/subtitle-B/chapter-II/s... ) says "No retail food store may single out coupon users for special treatment in any way.". Imagine, for example, a retailer that offers SNAP discounts only on the worst cuts of meat they otherwise have trouble selling; you can imagine why a SNAP recipient might feel uncomfortable with that, even though in principle it's a Pare…

> Imagine, for example, a retailer that offers SNAP discounts only on the worst cuts of meat they otherwise have trouble selling; you can imagine why a SNAP recipient might feel uncomfortable with that, even though in principle it's a Pareto improvement.

People I knew who received food assistance would have welcomed the Pareto improvement. And this would not explain why a 10% discount for all eligible goods should be forbidden for example.

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#27

Post by altairprime » Tue, Nov 04, 2025, 6:23 PM UTC

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #23

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've still got my pitchfork out. As the reminder says, discounts are allowed with a USDA waiver, so they should either offer a temporary blanket waiver or suggest some better way to mitigate the impact on SNAP recipients.

> they should either offer a temporary blanket waiver or suggest some better way to mitigate the impact on SNAP recipients Without something like this, why should one assume good faith behind the change? The people chanting "the cruelty is the point" seem to be vindicated rather clearly.

Well, they are slightly off course: both the starvation and general cruelty are the methods, in service of a much uglier point.

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#28

Post by datavirtue » Tue, Nov 04, 2025, 6:25 PM UTC

ElevenLathe wrote: post #19

sslayer wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be a fair program it should not cause an undue burden on the participating stores. Store A could advertise that it will provide a 10% discount to SNAP recipients. Now Stores B,C,D,etc.. have to match or beat to be competitive. This would ultimately introduce competitiveness into the market where it was meant to assist those less fortunate.

Offering a discount is assisting the less fortunate, as far as I can tell: They will get more food per dollar on their bridge card, costing the government less. This is (almost) the same dynamic as forbidding Medicare to negotiate drug prices, isn't it? I suppose chains could work around this by just lowering prices in neighborhoods with a lot of people on SNAP, which would actually be even better IMO, because it mea…

In Ohio we call that "driving to Kentucky."

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#29

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Tue, Nov 04, 2025, 6:27 PM UTC

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #23

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've still got my pitchfork out. As the reminder says, discounts are allowed with a USDA waiver, so they should either offer a temporary blanket waiver or suggest some better way to mitigate the impact on SNAP recipients.

> they should either offer a temporary blanket waiver or suggest some better way to mitigate the impact on SNAP recipients Without something like this, why should one assume good faith behind the change? The people chanting "the cruelty is the point" seem to be vindicated rather clearly.

I'm not even sure "good faith" is the right word. Trump stated explicitly today that he does not want SNAP benefits to be paid until he wins the shutdown fight. But a lot of people have this idea that being politically earnest is cringe, so it's not an option to simply say it's bad he won't explore other options to pay the benefits. You have to make up some clever reason why the issue is more complicated than it sounds, and maybe Trump had no choice, no matter how much that requires you to ignore context and court orders and the stated positions of the politicians involved.

Re: USDA Threatens Stores Giving Discounts to People on Food Stamps

#30

Post by giraffe_lady » Tue, Nov 04, 2025, 6:28 PM UTC

eminence32 wrote: post #8

Relevant links: https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/ebt/retailer/retailer-notice/r... https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/fr-022124 > Coupons shall be accepted for eligible foods at the same prices and on the same terms and conditions applicable to cash purchases of the same foods at the same store except that tax shall not be charged on eligible foods purchased with coupons. Obviously lawyers are going to be involved in interpr…

> But for someone who has SNAP benefits, but isn't using a SNAP coupon to buy food (you know... because the government isn't funding the program), do these rules still apply?

The lawyer that does pro bono work for the food bank I volunteer with believes this rule doesn't apply in this case for exactly that reason. But the legal challenges will take time and the threat is effective now regardless so it barely matters.