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VimGraph

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Re: VimGraph

#21

Post by nomilk »

This would be a bit easier to understand had the example used text that was unrelated to vim itself.

(seems to occur quite often with tutorials/documentation where the author has the topic they're showcasing top of mind, and naturally, but unnecessarily, uses the topic itself in examples, making it confusing for new readers to distinguish concept from arbitrary example)

For anyone wondering what's going on, "How do I\nexit vim?" is completely arbitrary text. This VimGraph function accepts this (or any other) text as an input, and shows the keys you could press to get from one place in the text to another using vim. The example limits the keys to just three (k, l, and w) presumably to not let things get too cluttered. (there's a curious 'crown' shaped key, which I suspect is a rendering bug where a 'w' and 'l' have been placed on top of one another).

Re: VimGraph

#23

Post by ctenb »

This post has many upvotes, but all the comments ask questions about the usefulness of this, without any justifying response so far. I have the same question, and I wonder what's going on with this post?

Re: VimGraph

#24

Post by mastermedo »

wonger_ wrote: post #20
busfahrer wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More often than L and H, I use { and }, which jumps across paragraphs (i.e. blocks of lines separated by blank lines). I've found that most of my code consists of 3-5 line blocks, and { and } feel like a nice medium-range navigation tool, because oftentimes CTRL+D jumps too far. The downside is that both of these jumps go into the jump table, so they will clutter your CTRL+O history a bit. But I think I'm weird in th…

I rebound ctrl+j/k to scroll about a third or fourth of the screen (~20 lines?) as an alternative to ctrl+d. I've been using { and } more as well. Mostly to navigate paragraphs of prose, but sometimes for code too.

Yeah, I did the same for shift+j.

When I experimented with scrolling, I found it hard not to lose understanding where I just scrolled from. What helped immensely was defining a top and bottom margin and using vim-smoothie.

Re: VimGraph

#25

Post by isaacremuant »

uticus wrote: post #12

Most of the comments here ask "what's the point?" I'd like to submit this has no practicality from a Vim tutorial perspective. However, from the perspective of anyone wanting to learn about graph theory and who understands the concepts of typing efficiency incorporated in Vim key movements, this could be very interesting. Kind of like many other things using Wolfram - a personal notebook that someone found interestin…

Analyzing the typing experience in vim by looking at pure keystrokes would be a mistake if you don't understand the tradeoffs and benefits of having a modal system and operating the editor without leaving the home row or needing a mouse.

Good remappings/config would also significantly alter your experience.

In the example, why would you even move with single chars and not words or to the end of line? I think it's definitely a poor example because the point of the diagram/investigation is not clearly described.

Re: VimGraph

#26

Post by Jtsummers »

isaacremuant wrote: post #25
uticus wrote: post #12

Most of the comments here ask "what's the point?" I'd like to submit this has no practicality from a Vim tutorial perspective. However, from the perspective of anyone wanting to learn about graph theory and who understands the concepts of typing efficiency incorporated in Vim key movements, this could be very interesting. Kind of like many other things using Wolfram - a personal notebook that someone found interestin…

Analyzing the typing experience in vim by looking at pure keystrokes would be a mistake if you don't understand the tradeoffs and benefits of having a modal system and operating the editor without leaving the home row or needing a mouse. Good remappings/config would also significantly alter your experience. In the example, why would you even move with single chars and not words or to the end of line? I think it's def…

> In the example, why would you even move with single chars and not words or to the end of line?

If you expand the "Scope" section you'll see more examples. The reason the initial example is restricted is probably because of how noisy those other graphs are when all (or more) movement commands are available. They make poor initial examples.

Re: VimGraph

#28

Post by fragmede »

nomilk wrote: post #21

This would be a bit easier to understand had the example used text that was unrelated to vim itself. (seems to occur quite often with tutorials/documentation where the author has the topic they're showcasing top of mind, and naturally, but unnecessarily, uses the topic itself in examples, making it confusing for new readers to distinguish concept from arbitrary example) For anyone wondering what's going on, "How do I…

But if they didn't, then how would we know if Stephen Wolfram is too clever by one half?

Re: VimGraph

#29

Post by isaacremuant »

Jtsummers wrote: post #26
isaacremuant wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Analyzing the typing experience in vim by looking at pure keystrokes would be a mistake if you don't understand the tradeoffs and benefits of having a modal system and operating the editor without leaving the home row or needing a mouse. Good remappings/config would also significantly alter your experience. In the example, why would you even move with single chars and not words or to the end of line? I think it's def…

> In the example, why would you even move with single chars and not words or to the end of line? If you expand the "Scope" section you'll see more examples. The reason the initial example is restricted is probably because of how noisy those other graphs are when all (or more) movement commands are available. They make poor initial examples.

Noted. Probably the best thing would be simplified color coding in separate graphs showing 3 types of movements from worse to more efficient. And a good statement around what's the point.

Conveying information through images is all about making something understood, not about graph completeness.

Re: VimGraph

#30

Post by zero_bias »

qsort wrote: post #4
thornton wrote: post #2

This is one of those times when I want someone to explain the value to me. Like is this to help coding agents be more efficient? Forgive my ignorance!

I believe that's mostly for fun. Coding agents wouldn't need to interact via the same interfaces humans use, they'd be given a tool to read and write files and they'd be fine with that.

Unfortunately, this characterizes the entire project: "cool" examples with no practical utility. Meanwhile, the language itself is incredibly strange (functions via patterns are an example of strange language choice), extremely slow, and very unstable.

In short, it's developing in the wrong direction.

I switched from Mathematica to Matlab in my work; it was the best investment of time in the entire project

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