Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

hackaday.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 315 posts

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#21

Post by bombcar »

7e wrote: post #6

Real world parallels to this abound. You cannot build whatever house you want on your own property, for example; it must meet strict building codes and be verifiably structurally sound. What ever happened to building what you wanted on your own land?

That is not universally true; even today in some states there are areas (and perhaps even entire states) where building codes do not apply, sometimes even to the main structure. Often you only need to comply over a certain size, for human habitation, or to connect to utilities.

The best argument “for” building codes is the same as “for” secure platforms; that people should be able to expect a certain level of competence when buying a structure or phone.

But if you want to do it yourself, there should be a path.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#24

Post by api »

khalic wrote: post #4

I was there, 3000 years ago, when we started ringing the bell about “trusted computing”. Honestly it’s not as bad as I expected

Mobile is where it’s bad. It never took hold fully on desktop since desktop is used for development and too many other things.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#25

Post by api »

Gigachad wrote: post #17

What happened was people ended up putting a lot of money and sensitive data on their computers and desired a system which wouldn’t expose that just because they ran the wrong software.

The better answer is to build better OSes with better security models.

I should be able to run a crypto wallet I downloaded from a Kim Jong Un fan site while high and it shouldn’t be able to do anything I don’t give it permission to do.

It’s totally possible. Tabs in a web browser are basically this.

I can do it with VMs but that’s lots of extra steps.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#26

Post by ToucanLoucan »

dns_snek wrote: post #20
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #3

> Sadly, over the years, Android has been steadily walking back that openness. The justifications are always reasonable on their face. Security updates need to be mandatory because users are terrible at remembering to update. Sideloading apps need to come with warnings because users will absolutely install malware if you let them just click a button. Root access is too dangerous because it puts the security of the wh…

Doing evil things under the guise of good intentions (with reasons that appear valid on the surface) has always been the playbook. All you're doing is excusing it - let's not. If this was genuinely about security and UX then they would continue to provide viable "escape hatches", but it isn't and so they don't. That's what's being criticized .

I disagree, I don’t think I’m excusing it at all and your argument hinges on the restriction of software running on hardware to be evil. I wouldn’t describe it that way. I think it’s frustrating certainly but I don’t think you have an inalienable right to run code of your choice.

I would characterize it more as Google is responding to the needs of the vast majority of its users, most of whom do not care to run unsigned software, certainly don’t write it, and have no need of escape hatches. Escape hatches are great, but each also represents a security weakness waiting to be exploited.

And not to leave it merely implied: they are also responding to large development organizations who want locked down platforms in which they can distribute, and more importantly crack down on those who would pirate their, software.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#27

Post by immibis »

cbdevidal wrote: post #7

Will LineageOS and other similar ROMs have this limitation as well, or will it be baked into the hardware?

They will not, but the hardware will (as it already does) do its best to stop you from installing LineageOS and other similar ROMs.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#28

Post by immibis »

Gigachad wrote: post #17

What happened was people ended up putting a lot of money and sensitive data on their computers and desired a system which wouldn’t expose that just because they ran the wrong software.

And by "people" we mean Hollywood. A great deal of this was created to enable DRM, then exploited for other purposes. For instance, it's illegal (by contract) to let a device without Secure Boot play a 4K stream from any mainstream studio. This is why Windows requires Secure Boot.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#30

Post by diego_moita »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #3

> Sadly, over the years, Android has been steadily walking back that openness. The justifications are always reasonable on their face. Security updates need to be mandatory because users are terrible at remembering to update. Sideloading apps need to come with warnings because users will absolutely install malware if you let them just click a button. Root access is too dangerous because it puts the security of the wh…

100% agree.

This is a recurring pattern: people make bad choices, mostly out of ignorance, but no one blames the public because we always assume that in a democracy the costumer and the voter are always right.

Behind every corrupt politician or every greedy corporation there are thousands or millions of negligent and ignorant voters and costumers.

Post reply on HN