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Britain's most tattooed man says UK's age check told him to "remove his face"

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Re: Britain's most tattooed man says UK's age check told him to "remove his face"

#21

Post by b112 »

jimnotgym wrote: post #10
jeroenhd wrote: post #4

[flagged]

But the law doesn't force them to have a fallback. Anyone that the AI doesn't like is therefore excluded from those services.

And this is the issue. 100%.

Edge cases are fine. Not having simple, easy ways to resolve it should be illegal for any form of ID verification.

One example? Some of these apps require a Google Play account to install. Or an Apple account. This is unacceptable.

Why would anyone be gatewayed to their, for example, government services by having a valid Google account? Or their bank?! Google bans people. Cuts them off.

Doesn't matter why, or how often, all that matters is that it can happen.

ID verification should not rely upon firebase, Google's push notifications, a Google account, and so on. And yes, there are ways to avoid these things for ID verification.

I don't have a Google account. I do have an Android device.

Re: Britain's most tattooed man says UK's age check told him to "remove his face"

#22

Post by walthamstow »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #14
CuriouslyC wrote: post #8

We're entering a world where hacking facial recognition is going to be a big thing. People are going to start wearing masks in public because of ICE, and to avoid repercussions for going to protests, and that's going to normalize a slippery slope. We're going to end up all Anonymous.

Countries with internet age verification don't have ICE. At least for now.

During the last UK election, Channel 4 went undercover with the Reform team in Clacton and captured some interesting video including Farage's aide saying "when Reform are in government, our police officers will be paramilitaries"

The aide still works for Reform.

https://www.channel4.com/news/exclusive-undercover-inside-re...

Re: Britain's most tattooed man says UK's age check told him to "remove his face"

#23

Post by jeroenhd »

jimnotgym wrote: post #10
jeroenhd wrote: post #4

[flagged]

But the law doesn't force them to have a fallback. Anyone that the AI doesn't like is therefore excluded from those services.

But the law doesn't stop them from having a fallback either.

The problem lies squarely with the companies contracting these AI services not adding a "facial recognition doesn't work? click here to try something else" button.

Re: Britain's most tattooed man says UK's age check told him to "remove his face"

#24

Post by monegator »

sjw987 wrote: post #6

The chap basically has a permanent version of those clothing items that confuse security cameras. Perhaps we'll see more people sporting this look in the future.

A few years ago, i think 2018, i was in munich and as usual i went to see the mueum of technology. They had this exibition about the future of surveillance as seen by cyberpunk artists and there was this part about hair style and makeup that would confuse face detection algorythms. It was brillant, but i never managed to find it again. I hope the hivemind here remembers or can point me in the right direction

Re: Britain's most tattooed man says UK's age check told him to "remove his face"

#25

Post by carlob »

jeroenhd wrote: post #23
jimnotgym wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the law doesn't force them to have a fallback. Anyone that the AI doesn't like is therefore excluded from those services.

But the law doesn't stop them from having a fallback either. The problem lies squarely with the companies contracting these AI services not adding a "facial recognition doesn't work? click here to try something else" button.

The problem lies squarely in the fact that some fundamental thing is getting contracted out to some company.

Re: Britain's most tattooed man says UK's age check told him to "remove his face"

#26

Post by mcherm »

eesmith wrote: post #20
tobr wrote: post #12

I wonder how it might affect people with medical conditions that make their faces look unusual. If the law only applies to pornography, most people in that situation might not want to go talk to a journalist about it.

Not well. "When Face Recognition Doesn’t Know Your Face Is a Face An estimated 100 million people live with facial differences. As face recognition tech becomes widespread, some say they’re getting blocked from accessing essential systems and services." https://www.wired.com/story/when-face-recognition-doesnt-kno... Posted to HN yesterday at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45667472 . No comments.

> Posted to HN yesterday [...] No comments.

I wonder if that is partially because many (like myself) aren't subscribers and can't read the article.

Re: Britain's most tattooed man says UK's age check told him to "remove his face"

#27

Post by isodev »

While I can imagine this is very frustrating, I think we can definitely see "facial accessories" becoming more mainstream as ways to evade "unsolicited surveillance". Like... imagine someone invents glasses with an outward looking camera that can stream all their surroundings without proper opt-in consent (where this is required).

Re: Britain's most tattooed man says UK's age check told him to "remove his face"

#28

Post by DoingIsLearning »

jeroenhd wrote: post #4

[flagged]

> If that's all they offer, it's on the companies to implement a fallback for edge cases like these.

These news articles and the adjacent online discussion are textbook warfare psyops 'nudging'.

Doesn't matter if you are real/bot, being payed or not. The discourse is now changing the goalposts to focus on the details of OSA implementation, not OSA itself. Mission acomplished.

It's on governments to stop pushing legislation that slow boil us into autocracy. It's on us to not be ok with that.

Everything else is noise.

Re: Britain's most tattooed man says UK's age check told him to "remove his face"

#29

Post by jeroenhd »

A1kmm wrote: post #19
jeroenhd wrote: post #4

[flagged]

I've personally been unable to pass AI 'liveness' detection (which was a high-stress situation when it related to something my new employer asked me to do after I already resigned from my previous role) despite repeated attempts and all I have is alopecia areata affecting my eyelashes / eyebrows (a relatively common condition). These models are discriminatory for a lot of people, I'd say, and shouldn't be allowed.

I think these models are fine for people who they do work on, but it's idiotic to assume facial recognition works for everyone. I should be able to use a website if my webcam is broken.

The practical problems are all caused by AI companies lying through their teeth and making bold claims and their customers being dumb enough to believe them.

The actual problem that needs solving is the fact that you need to validate your age without a form of solid proof being available in the first place. In cases where everyone has digital ID already there are technical solutions to solve that problem, and until those are available for free, it's idiotic to require the use of such technology in the first place. The UK doesn't have common, accessible digital ID yet they expect digital identification of some kind to just happen.

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