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When a stadium adds AI to everything, it's worse experience for everyone

a.wholelottanothing.org

21–30 of 99 posts

Re: When a stadium adds AI to everything, it's worse experience for everyone

#21

> You place all your items on the white shelf with some space between them. Although they were clearly designed to be a self-checkout experience, the stadium had a staff member rearrange your items, then for about 30 seconds the kiosk would be thinking. After, it would pop up all items on the menu, and the staff member would have to tap to confirm what each item was. Maybe we're just calling all forms of automation a…

They do that at Circle K[0] today using the same tech from Mashgin. It's meant to be a self-checkout, but you literally have one employee standing and watching this one checkout (sometimes 2-3, but usually 1-2). It's not always accurate, requires some hand-holding at times, and slows down the already slow lines at Circle K. It's a bit faster than the article implies and does not require a staff member, but still slower than a human would be.

Meanwhile over at QuikTrip, there's one person checking out two people at a time. Suffice to say, if both stores are available, I will always choose the QT.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c1kbWAttus

Re: When a stadium adds AI to everything, it's worse experience for everyone

#22
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The arrogance is not that they think they're the center of the universe. It is much worse. I hear a lot of talk about how much pain you can inflict on people and how to extract the most value from that. Last I heard it was from a couple of media types discussing radio commercials. No care for their actual product for the end user - but an evaluation of how much people would suffer before tuning away. Actual professio…

Sadly. It's like how modern bridges can be built with less materials than old ones, now that we can calculate precisely the minimum we use pretty much exactly that. Things have gone exactly the same way with consumers over the past 30 years, businesses have learned exactly how badly they can treat you and step up to that line at every opportunity.

it's like bridge constructor, real life entertainment...

https://www.gog.com/en/game/bridge_constructor

Re: When a stadium adds AI to everything, it's worse experience for everyone

#23
post #14

I was recently at an events center, that has replaced all of their vending machines with machines that require me to install an app(!) to purchase a product. Literally, didn't take cash or credit - just via app. Per the marketing on the side, this is meant to be for my benefit in order to earn "points" and get offered "deals." I don't think I have to tell you that I did NOT install the app, and just walked further to…

Lumen Field in Seattle just installed some Amazon Just Walk Out vendors this year. I'm happy to report you don't need to be logged into Amazon or have an app. I double clicked my phone to swipe my Apple Pay before I walked in, grabbed a beer and walked out. It was fantastic.

The big issue I have with this experience is that you don't get a clear charge price before you leave. So you have to check a page either some minutes or hours later and hope that the total is correct. Like the article said, I don't love the idea of being charged for 3 overpriced bottles of water when I only took two. I'd rather just settle my transactions in the moment than try to remember what my total was and dispute things later from memory on the occasional times it's wrong.

Re: When a stadium adds AI to everything, it's worse experience for everyone

#24
post #2

The article starts by blaming AI for the reduced food menu, a speculative claim which the author made no attempt to validate and which is almost certainly incorrect. I stopped reading right there.

You should've read further.

In reality, when getting out first to market, it might be difficult for "AI" to decipher if a user added 1 of 5 available sauces to their chicken wings, so to reduce the likelihood of this error, you remove it until the technology is more mature. Speculative sure, but a strong assumption, and I doubt Mashgin would confirm this.

Re: When a stadium adds AI to everything, it's worse experience for everyone

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly. It's like how modern bridges can be built with less materials than old ones, now that we can calculate precisely the minimum we use pretty much exactly that. Things have gone exactly the same way with consumers over the past 30 years, businesses have learned exactly how badly they can treat you and step up to that line at every opportunity.

Bridges are public goods. If the public spends less on material they can afford to build additional bridges and create value for more people.

You're right. If the minimum amount is actually the minimum and not less than necessary, you don't need to exceed that.

What the poster before wanted to imply was that we sacrifice safety or sustainability or some value other than material/money (which may well be true).

Re: When a stadium adds AI to everything, it's worse experience for everyone

#26

I was recently at an events center, that has replaced all of their vending machines with machines that require me to install an app(!) to purchase a product. Literally, didn't take cash or credit - just via app. Per the marketing on the side, this is meant to be for my benefit in order to earn "points" and get offered "deals." I don't think I have to tell you that I did NOT install the app, and just walked further to…

I think of a friend who worked at a bank, and a colleage decided to show him "how the world really worked"

He got out a big printout and started showing the different demographics and their habits.

" woman, with a little bit of college" - she will get a credit card, charge it up to the limit, then make the minimum payment... forever.

" man, no college" - he will get a credit card, charge it up to the limit, might make one payment, never make another payment ever.

Then he went on to say, corporations will slant their advertising to target demographic #1 with credit card advertisements. They will make their advertisements disappear from view from demographic #2.

I kind of wonder if the whole vending system is slanted around these kinds of things. Sports fan, uses phone indiscriminately for everything, sell him an impulse snickers bar with an app, then load him down with ads for payday loans.

Re: When a stadium adds AI to everything, it's worse experience for everyone

#27
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bridges are public goods. If the public spends less on material they can afford to build additional bridges and create value for more people.

You're right. If the minimum amount is actually the minimum and not less than necessary, you don't need to exceed that. What the poster before wanted to imply was that we sacrifice safety or sustainability or some value other than material/money (which may well be true).

Usually something is sacrificed in the name of extractive profit. With public spending it's just less taxes.

Re: When a stadium adds AI to everything, it's worse experience for everyone

#28

> You place all your items on the white shelf with some space between them. Although they were clearly designed to be a self-checkout experience, the stadium had a staff member rearrange your items, then for about 30 seconds the kiosk would be thinking. After, it would pop up all items on the menu, and the staff member would have to tap to confirm what each item was. Maybe we're just calling all forms of automation a…

I came here to paste that quote. It sounds like a disaster of poor HCI around not-ready-for-prime-time tech implementation. That's not even a great PoC demo to get funding, much less deploy into production.

Maybe they were emboldened because many companies still can't even do decades-old UPC barcode scanner self-checkouts well?

The closest self-checkout to working reasonably well I see regularly would be at Whole Foods Market, at least just using the low-tech UPC and scale. I only have a few nits about it.

(Though, within the last week, the usual duct-taped-on off-the-shelf hand scanner apparently saw the wrong barcode on the front of the product label (yes, some brand did that), which wedged the station, and the employee who came over seemed like they might think I was trying to defraud the store. I've coded for a few of those scanners before, and they provide a mix of automagical easy high-value behavior and major pitfalls. There are a few kinds of interfaces, and a large fleet of settings, and you really have to wrestle the device to the ground, to make every scenario bulletproof. If the integrator wasn't careful, for some of them, you can even reprogram or brick them with an in-band barcode, and disabling this feature is buried among the numerous settings.)

The worst self-checkout I'm currently exposed to is the dumpster-fire of a major chain, which goes out of its way to fill the UI with garbage, and then doesn't do even basic sensing and state flow right. They really need to look at WFM design, and then go even further in that direction, and get the state model right. While making sure that no one's bonus is tied to garbage and dark patterns on the screen.

(Also, for return customers who nope right out of the self-checkout headache, and go to the human checkout, or get directed to it by the attendant who's glaring at all the self-checkouts, they need clean their CC terminal keypad that's visibly caked with crud, like maybe it hasn't been disinfected in a year. Especially since they mandate repeated use of it when it should default to working with just a card tap/swipe, for a high-traffic location for many sick people.)

Re: When a stadium adds AI to everything, it's worse experience for everyone

#29
post #12

I was recently at an events center, that has replaced all of their vending machines with machines that require me to install an app(!) to purchase a product. Literally, didn't take cash or credit - just via app. Per the marketing on the side, this is meant to be for my benefit in order to earn "points" and get offered "deals." I don't think I have to tell you that I did NOT install the app, and just walked further to…

The arrogance is not that they think they're the center of the universe. It is much worse. I hear a lot of talk about how much pain you can inflict on people and how to extract the most value from that. Last I heard it was from a couple of media types discussing radio commercials. No care for their actual product for the end user - but an evaluation of how much people would suffer before tuning away. Actual professio…

>a couple of media types discussing radio commercials

Relevant Simpsons clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdMjqcjMVTc

Re: When a stadium adds AI to everything, it's worse experience for everyone

#30

I was recently at an events center, that has replaced all of their vending machines with machines that require me to install an app(!) to purchase a product. Literally, didn't take cash or credit - just via app. Per the marketing on the side, this is meant to be for my benefit in order to earn "points" and get offered "deals." I don't think I have to tell you that I did NOT install the app, and just walked further to…

It's all about the pop-ups & tracking. The same reason that McDonald's wants you to install their app.
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