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In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

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Re: In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

#21

Post by JKCalhoun »

zkmon wrote: post #4

Not only lack of truth, but lack of locality/relevance is an issue. You get flooded by info that you never need in your daily life or in near future. Every news channel would inundate you with global news as if all that is happening in your neighborhood. This is partly the reason why governments of the western world are forced to act on everything that happens on other side of the world. Because people feel that thei…

> Not only lack of truth, but lack of locality/relevance is an issue.

You could have stopped there. I don't think we (in the U.S.) get too much international news — to the contrary in fact. But to be sure we are not getting enough local and relevant news.

For example, just opened Google news and saw "Joy Behar calls out “The View” cohost's revealing outfit: 'Where are you going in that dress?'"

(Of course it's easy to cherry pick dumb celebrity "news".)

Re: In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

#22

Post by JKCalhoun »

burnt-resistor wrote: post #3

HyperNormalisation (2016) helped me frame the decline they (and we) allowed. The people at the top have been trending towards dumber, less conscientious, less hopeful, less moral, and more corrupt when it doesn't have to be this way; plus, it's easier than ever for billionaires and private equity to buy up corporate media and manipulate social media to shape narratives favorable to their interests. It's trending this…

"HyperNormalisation" was interesting but gave me tinfoil hat vibes such that I kept everything they claimed at arms length. But there we are, in a "post truth" world you have to be skeptical of everything. (At the same time, I am conflicted because I tend also to be skeptical of skepticism itself and try to maintain a dogged optimism.)

Re: In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

#24

Post by Applejinx »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #22
burnt-resistor wrote: post #3

HyperNormalisation (2016) helped me frame the decline they (and we) allowed. The people at the top have been trending towards dumber, less conscientious, less hopeful, less moral, and more corrupt when it doesn't have to be this way; plus, it's easier than ever for billionaires and private equity to buy up corporate media and manipulate social media to shape narratives favorable to their interests. It's trending this…

"HyperNormalisation" was interesting but gave me tinfoil hat vibes such that I kept everything they claimed at arms length. But there we are, in a "post truth" world you have to be skeptical of everything. (At the same time, I am conflicted because I tend also to be skeptical of skepticism itself and try to maintain a dogged optimism.)

I'm familiar with it. In my opinion, Adam Curtis's moviemaking style is strongly informed by attention-getting, which is relevant to his subject matter: it's like how the youtuber Harry Litman produces salient and reasoned content (albeit opinionated) but never fails to label it with completely clickbait titles and thumbnails.

If your concept is that your work should be heard, you're obligated to take whatever steps are accepted to meet the bar for 'culturally being heard', a bar that you don't yourself set.

I think Adam Curtis makes non-tinfoil points and takes pains to present them as explosively as possible, something he's good at doing. I sympathize with the idea that it's distasteful to do that, but within the culture that hosts him, it's correct action.

Re: In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

#25

Post by mosura »

exasperaited wrote: post #20
mosura wrote: post #16

We never lived in a truth biased world. This whole “post-truth” talking point exists because one power system is concerned about the erosion of their ability to impose their pile of lies on a particular society. It is itself post-truth in nature. For cultures that were historically more honest this is more of a shock, but that only ever applied to a tiny minority globally.

We lived at least in a consensus reality world, where most people with some basic education agreed on most things that were obviously true, and most people had a shared sense of the fuzzy boundaries of fact and opinion. We now do not, and it has nothing to do with power systems [0] and everything to do with a newfound facility to mislead at scale, which states and individuals alike will use. [0] except that elements…

> most people with some basic education agreed on most things that were obviously true

Indoctrination.

Part of it is to make you not see it for what it is.

Re: In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

#27

Post by progval »

mosura wrote: post #25
exasperaited wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We lived at least in a consensus reality world, where most people with some basic education agreed on most things that were obviously true, and most people had a shared sense of the fuzzy boundaries of fact and opinion. We now do not, and it has nothing to do with power systems [0] and everything to do with a newfound facility to mislead at scale, which states and individuals alike will use. [0] except that elements…

> most people with some basic education agreed on most things that were obviously true Indoctrination. Part of it is to make you not see it for what it is.

Do you have examples of lies that the majority was indoctrinated to believe?

Re: In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

#28

Post by hn_throw_bs »

progval wrote: post #27
mosura wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most people with some basic education agreed on most things that were obviously true Indoctrination. Part of it is to make you not see it for what it is.

Do you have examples of lies that the majority was indoctrinated to believe?

[flagged]

Re: In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

#29

Post by mallowdram »

burnt-resistor wrote: post #3

HyperNormalisation (2016) helped me frame the decline they (and we) allowed. The people at the top have been trending towards dumber, less conscientious, less hopeful, less moral, and more corrupt when it doesn't have to be this way; plus, it's easier than ever for billionaires and private equity to buy up corporate media and manipulate social media to shape narratives favorable to their interests. It's trending this…

Baehr and Curtis are still trapped behind the edifice of evolution. We're primates, we compete for status at any cost that has better benefits, including epistemological loss.

The problem is actually quite simple, we use words, which are lossy, arbitrary, and narratives which are rhetorical same.

There's no virtue ability that overtakes these incredibly leaky systems, they're illusions laypeople accept while those in higher status operate as bypasses to extract value. Narratives are not only illusions, they entrance audiences into whatever deception the control system requires: they're state-mythical, they're time-wasters in entertainment, they convince the audience that events are knowable, like news, they convince people that behaviors are malleable as in history. Yet we know we make the same mistakes as countries, as families, as individuals.

Re: In a post-truth world truth-seeking is more important

#30

Post by mosura »

progval wrote: post #27
mosura wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most people with some basic education agreed on most things that were obviously true Indoctrination. Part of it is to make you not see it for what it is.

Do you have examples of lies that the majority was indoctrinated to believe?

Religion.

The fact there is intense disagreement about what is “obviously true” between countries shows that this is still happening.

The beliefs of the masses are simply shaped to suit political interests.

Concrete example: “boys should be circumcised”. If the answer was objectively obvious to educated people why does the US have such a different position on it than Europe?

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