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Regarding the Compact

president.mit.edu

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Re: Regarding the Compact

#21

Post by DrewADesign »

magnio wrote: post #14
smrtinsert wrote: post #2

Is there any precedent in US history for what the administration is asking of the nations top universities? Incredible they have to deal with this.

While the current climate is not comparable, I find the actions and general attitude of the current US government similar to that during the McCarthy era. Which led me to this very interesting article from 1965: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1965/6/17/the-university-... In it, the author described the attacks on specific personnels and public villainification of Harvard. More tellingly though, the author wrote t…

Assuming lack of knowledge is the reason authoritarian tendencies show up periodically dismisses the fact that a lot of people think it’s a good thing. There were neo nazis right after wwii. They didn’t forget — they wanted it.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#22

Post by bee_rider »

runako wrote: post #19
tencentshill wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nine universities include: Vanderbilt University Dartmouth College the University of Pennsylvania the University of Southern California Massachusetts Institute of Technology the University of Texas at Austin the University of Arizona Brown University the University of Virginia

This is a motley list. I am guessing the criteria for inclusion was an administration staffer (or their offspring) was not able to secure admission.

For anyone confused like me, a definition of motley is “Having elements of great variety or incongruity; heterogeneous.”

I think a lot of the neural connections to the word motley come from the expression “motley crew” which has fairly negative connotations. But the truth of the matter is, this is just a very varied group of schools; some great schools on the list. I won’t say any of the schools are not great, because of course some alum will come along and say “actually we had a great department for some niche computational thing” and I’ll be embarrassed to not have known that.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#23

Post by periodjet »

This seems like a reasonable response by MIT. I’m struggling to understand where the core disagreement lies though. Would someone who is opposed to this “compact” care to explain their view? I’m not interested in baseless name-calling (“fascist” etc) but I am interested in cogent reasoning.

I didn’t read the compact itself, but I did read the wikipedia article about it, and it seems to be a very positive set of criteria (safeguarding individuality and merit, protecting against the formation of ideological monoculture, protecting against hostile nation-state actors, etc)

It’s bizarre actually, because these institutions should be doing all of these things already. I don’t know what to make of the fact that they aren’t.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#24

Post by stronglikedan »

boplicity wrote: post #3

Remember, fascism is not an ideology or philosophical idea. It is a system of government. Gaining control of academia is a core part of this system. I applaud MIT for standing up to this. I hope the other universities involved also resist. We'll see.

[flagged]

Re: Regarding the Compact

#25

Post by laidoffamazon »

bee_rider wrote: post #17
laidoffamazon wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not like this, no, and it has never shaken down schools like it has at Columbia or Harvard. As much as I despise these institutions and their undergrads this does nothing to punish them and everything to increase the power of this current corrupt executive.

Why specifically the undergrads?

They hate the rest of us that didn’t get into elite schools and are permanent members of the upper caste of this country. Graduate school admission is more purely meritocratic on if you can do research but even that isn’t great.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#26

Post by mtalantikite »

periodjet wrote: post #23

This seems like a reasonable response by MIT. I’m struggling to understand where the core disagreement lies though. Would someone who is opposed to this “compact” care to explain their view? I’m not interested in baseless name-calling (“fascist” etc) but I am interested in cogent reasoning. I didn’t read the compact itself, but I did read the wikipedia article about it, and it seems to be a very positive set of crite…

Regardless of what is in the compact, it's important that our educational institutions have independence to run themselves as they see fit. To make funding conditional to a set of demands by the government takes away that independence.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#27

Post by jmathai »

periodjet wrote: post #23

This seems like a reasonable response by MIT. I’m struggling to understand where the core disagreement lies though. Would someone who is opposed to this “compact” care to explain their view? I’m not interested in baseless name-calling (“fascist” etc) but I am interested in cogent reasoning. I didn’t read the compact itself, but I did read the wikipedia article about it, and it seems to be a very positive set of crite…

I think decisions based off race, sex, etc. could probably be eased off a bit. But I don’t know that it should be completely eliminated. Diversity and meritocracy don’t always go hand in hand - I think a healthy balance is important.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#28

Post by dartharva »

From MIT's financials (https://facts.mit.edu/operating-financials/):

Operating Revenue: $5.07B, out of which - Federal funding (sponsored support): $2.30B

Operating Costs: $4.78B, out of which - Sponsored research expenditure: $2.10B

Additionally, they seem to have $24.57B worth of endowed funds and get gifts and pledges of net ~$0.6B every year.

Looks like they can wane off their dependence on federal funding if only they tried. They don't have to deal with idiot politicians.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#29

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

periodjet wrote: post #23

This seems like a reasonable response by MIT. I’m struggling to understand where the core disagreement lies though. Would someone who is opposed to this “compact” care to explain their view? I’m not interested in baseless name-calling (“fascist” etc) but I am interested in cogent reasoning. I didn’t read the compact itself, but I did read the wikipedia article about it, and it seems to be a very positive set of crite…

I did read the Compact and had a similar response: "This all sounds very reasonable".

I think the negative reaction to it is mostly a function of who is pushing it.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#30

Post by fedsocpuppet »

laidoffamazon wrote: post #25
bee_rider wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why specifically the undergrads?

They hate the rest of us that didn’t get into elite schools and are permanent members of the upper caste of this country. Graduate school admission is more purely meritocratic on if you can do research but even that isn’t great.

Is this like a humiliation fetish at this point? This is seriously unhealthy. We don't hate our friends that didn't a go to an eLiTe school because we're not sociopaths. Not sure why I'm even trying since you seem pretty dead set on this, but it's just a lot easier to go through life without made up enemies.
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