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My clients keep ghosting invoices and I'm so fucking done

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Re: My clients keep ghosting invoices and I'm so fucking done

#21
Some lessons I learned the hard way:

0. Getting paid is your job. Getting paid is more important than doing the work.

1. Pick better clients. Good clients don't have a problem with paying (and great clients are good clients who have regular work).

2. Be blunt about money. Upfront. Require a retainer as part of your contract. You will avoid clients who never intend to pay.

3. You are not a bank. Your retainer is to be applied against final invoice. You owe the client work. They don't owe you money. If a client says they don't have the money, there's no point in doing the work.

4. People who don't intend to pay will almost always tell you they don't intend to pay before you start the work...maybe a "joke" about not paying or a comment "you are charging too much." It lets them rationalize you had it coming because they gave you a warning. Those aren't jokes or complaints. They are statements of intent.

5. If someone's budget does not match their scope, reduce the scope not your fee. Your job is to solve the problems the client is paying you to solve. It is impossible to be paid for solving the problem of paying you less.

6. When someone doesn't pay, stop working. When they owe you money, don't deliver deliverables.

7. Established business relationships with regular clients, can change some of this...the client you've worked with for years can actually be joking about money because you two have a track record.

Good luck.

Re: My clients keep ghosting invoices and I'm so fucking done

#22
> i wait a week

This is not long enough. You can say whatever deadline you want on your invoice, but in reality it will be paid approximately 30-120 days after it gets received by the person responsible for paying invoices at the company you work with.

> two weeks later i’m refreshing stripe like a fool

This is still definitely not long enough. Also, Stripe is extremely risky. One chargeback and you can lose a lot.

> just trying to see if this pain’s real enough that people (like you) would drop around $49/mo for it

No: Invoicing/billing/client contact info is the most important data a small business should keep secure. Further, I would never let an automated system reach out to valued clients on my behalf--ever. I have high standards for apps I give access to my financials/P&L/client list and it would take years of trust and reviews before I'd ever consider something like this.

> i just need to know if this is a real pain

It sounds 100% self-inflicted and easy to solve. If you want to be paid the second work is over, use a system where the funds are escrowed and released upon client approval of the project.

Otherwise, all you need to solve your pain is to build a 90 day runway of funds (at least) so your clients can follow their standard processes for invoice payment.

Re: My clients keep ghosting invoices and I'm so fucking done

#23

It is a real pain, but you are approaching it with the same attitude that is causing it. Don't email gently to "check in". Don't beg. Don't start soft and build up over weeks. If a payment is late, call them directly that day and be firm. Not mean or harsh, just firm. "Hi, your payment did not come through, please take care of it so I can start working for you again." And then stop working with them until it does. To…

This is totally correct, and something that took me a long time to learn. Doing lots of slowly escalating "check-ins" and "reminders" means you are owning the problem, not the other party, and you're teaching them that every time they do nothing, they can expect another "reminder" or escalation that is not much firmer than where they are today. They become like the frog that gets boiled in slowly increasing water tem…

> then switch immediately into thermonuclear asshole mode

I can't imagine the number of clients I would have lost over the years if I'd had this approach.

People need time to pay for soft services. Unless you're billing hourly for your time at general labor rates, surely the margins are incredible for what you're doing.

Being a jerk to a client is a surefire way to end that relationship. Some clients who have taken their sweet time to pay over the years are also some of my longest and overall most valuable business contacts. Being a jerk to them would have given someone else a chance to step in and earn their business by providing better customer service.

Invoice dates aren't thermonuclear deadlines and treating them as if they are is shortsighted.

Re: My clients keep ghosting invoices and I'm so fucking done

#24

> i wait a week This is not long enough. You can say whatever deadline you want on your invoice, but in reality it will be paid approximately 30-120 days after it gets received by the person responsible for paying invoices at the company you work with. > two weeks later i’m refreshing stripe like a fool This is still definitely not long enough. Also, Stripe is extremely risky. One chargeback and you can lose a lot. >…

> you have to get a 90-ish day runway going so you don't feel like people are ripping you off when it's just the way the business world has worked for ages.

100% this. Every self-employed consultant must have plenty of cash reserves. It's not just to keep their personal finances solvent but also to maintain a positive relationship with the client. When consultants brood over invoices taking a few months, that angst spills into the personal relationships with the client and everything goes bad from there.

If OP doesn't have a fully liquid cash buffer (I recommend 6 months worth), or if they don't like that invoices routinely take a few months to process, then consulting may the wrong career choice.

Re: My clients keep ghosting invoices and I'm so fucking done

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is totally correct, and something that took me a long time to learn. Doing lots of slowly escalating "check-ins" and "reminders" means you are owning the problem, not the other party, and you're teaching them that every time they do nothing, they can expect another "reminder" or escalation that is not much firmer than where they are today. They become like the frog that gets boiled in slowly increasing water tem…

> then switch immediately into thermonuclear asshole mode I can't imagine the number of clients I would have lost over the years if I'd had this approach. People need time to pay for soft services. Unless you're billing hourly for your time at general labor rates, surely the margins are incredible for what you're doing. Being a jerk to a client is a surefire way to end that relationship. Some clients who have taken t…

> I can't imagine the number of clients I would have lost over the years if I'd had this approach.

Nonsense. I've been consulting for 13 years. The clients that are always late are routinely the most annoying, those that expect the most for the least, and with rates always below the best paying clients. I can already tell from the first interview what kind of client they are, if they balk at the price or try to micromanage time and expenses, I don't even accept the contract.

If a client is always late paying invoices, asks for discounts or expects me to work for free, I drop them. Has worked wonders. I haven't had a late invoice in like 6 years.

(On the other hand I had a client that texted me sorry whenever he was ONE day late, taking time over the weekend to set up the bank transfer, and he was the best client I've ever had. Stayed with them building up their business for 6 years)

It's simple really: I create good solutions on time, you pay for whatever I ask on time. None of this is negotiable in any way. Shit happens, but needs to be communicated clearly and be an exceptional event, otherwise something's gone wrong.

Re: My clients keep ghosting invoices and I'm so fucking done

#26
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then switch immediately into thermonuclear asshole mode I can't imagine the number of clients I would have lost over the years if I'd had this approach. People need time to pay for soft services. Unless you're billing hourly for your time at general labor rates, surely the margins are incredible for what you're doing. Being a jerk to a client is a surefire way to end that relationship. Some clients who have taken t…

> I can't imagine the number of clients I would have lost over the years if I'd had this approach. Nonsense. I've been consulting for 13 years. The clients that are always late are routinely the most annoying, those that expect the most for the least, and with rates always below the best paying clients. I can already tell from the first interview what kind of client they are, if they balk at the price or try to micro…

> I can already tell from the first interview what kind of client they are

I don't think you can tell, but you believe it - if you approach people with this kind of attitude, it is no wonder you have never made it over the hump with someone who actually needs help and is busy with their pressing business and isn't a perfect client

It's great when someone pays promptly, but I'd be a fool to turn my nose up at someone because they take a few weeks to open their wallet and pay an invoice for temporary use of my brainpower to do something for them when they needed my help.

I see clients as human beings with different routines, ryhthms, and even procedures of getting something paid. Just because I mark something on a piece of paper as the day I'd like to be paid for it doesn't mean I'll lose my mortgage and go hand to mouth the day after, and I don't expect a client to call me feverishly worried if they forgot to turn in an invoice until yesterday and the payment will be a few weeks. OK. I run my business & life in a way that doesn't put me in a bind if someone else needs a little time.

Treating people this way allows you to form relationships - which is in and of itself much more rewarding, on a more meaningful level.

I don't value or see a reason to enforce military-like pay schedule with the people that I judge on their... what did you say?

> from the first interview what kind of client they are

I think this says a lot more about you. Usually, this is called stereotyping. It can lead to inadvertent racism, sexism, and biases against those your so promptly judge.

You should be aware that you might be focused on the cheque, which has a finite and set value, instead of the person and relationship you can build with each client - which has an unlimited value.

Plus, as far as we know, we get one chance to live our life. Maybe you could try not treating people like you describe, it might make your one life experience different when you see how other people respond.

Re: My clients keep ghosting invoices and I'm so fucking done

#27
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't imagine the number of clients I would have lost over the years if I'd had this approach. Nonsense. I've been consulting for 13 years. The clients that are always late are routinely the most annoying, those that expect the most for the least, and with rates always below the best paying clients. I can already tell from the first interview what kind of client they are, if they balk at the price or try to micro…

> I can already tell from the first interview what kind of client they are I don't think you can tell, but you believe it - if you approach people with this kind of attitude, it is no wonder you have never made it over the hump with someone who actually needs help and is busy with their pressing business and isn't a perfect client It's great when someone pays promptly, but I'd be a fool to turn my nose up at someone…

> I think this says a lot more about you. Usually, this is called stereotyping. It can lead to inadvertent racism, sexism, and biases against those your so promptly judge.

I love how expecting professionalism from clients, and not allowing them to routinely be late on their obligations, as they do not allow me to come short of mine, in your opinion leads to racism and sexism.

As I have a successful consulting business and happy clients, I have nothing to prove to you and I won't bother commenting further on such inflammatory grounds. Good day.

Re: My clients keep ghosting invoices and I'm so fucking done

#28
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can already tell from the first interview what kind of client they are I don't think you can tell, but you believe it - if you approach people with this kind of attitude, it is no wonder you have never made it over the hump with someone who actually needs help and is busy with their pressing business and isn't a perfect client It's great when someone pays promptly, but I'd be a fool to turn my nose up at someone…

> I think this says a lot more about you. Usually, this is called stereotyping. It can lead to inadvertent racism, sexism, and biases against those your so promptly judge. I love how expecting professionalism from clients, and not allowing them to routinely be late on their obligations, as they do not allow me to come short of mine, in your opinion leads to racism and sexism. As I have a successful consulting busines…

> I can already tell from the first interview what kind of client they are

Noticed you forgot to respond to this as you quickly ran away from any self-reflection

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