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Large Investment in OpenStreetMap from Knight Foundation

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Re: Large Investment in OpenStreetMap from Knight Foundation

#21

Post by sneak »

bluthru wrote: post #16
AndrewDucker wrote: post #2

How long, one wonders, until Open Street Map becomes the ubiquitous standard? Could Google switch to using it, and feed into it themselves to improve its results further?

It seems a bit hypocritical for Google to have and open source OS that gathers mapping data from a proprietary source. Down the road, I don't want Google to be the only one with enough mapping knowledge to have self-driving car tech. That doesn't seem like data that should be owned by a corporation.

That corporation was the entity that spent the huge sums of money to acquire that data.

Re: Large Investment in OpenStreetMap from Knight Foundation

#22

Post by arethuza »

follower wrote: post #12
arethuza wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I routinely switch between 4 different map and map-based services (Google Maps for Streetview, Bing Maps for Ordnance Survey maps, OpenStreetMap for paths and Geograph for pictures overlayed on OS grid cells) - I'd love to have some way of combining these.

Not sure in what context you want to combine them but OpenLayers enables maps from multiple services to be used together: http://openlayers.org/

Sorry, I should have explained why I do all of that.

I combine all of that data to try and come up with interesting routes to cycle - OpenStreetMap is great for detailed cycle path data, Streetview allows me to judge whether I want to cycle along a road (I prefer offroad) and Geograph is the closest you can get to an offroad Street View. And if I am going anywhere serious (well out of town) then I replace OpenStreetMap with OS maps from Bing.

Re: Large Investment in OpenStreetMap from Knight Foundation

#24

Post by BitMastro »

bluthru wrote: post #16
AndrewDucker wrote: post #2

How long, one wonders, until Open Street Map becomes the ubiquitous standard? Could Google switch to using it, and feed into it themselves to improve its results further?

It seems a bit hypocritical for Google to have and open source OS that gathers mapping data from a proprietary source. Down the road, I don't want Google to be the only one with enough mapping knowledge to have self-driving car tech. That doesn't seem like data that should be owned by a corporation.

I don's see how it could be hypocritical, but anyway.. 1)Google Maps is not part of the OS, but is a proprietary closed source application. 2)Nobody is stopping you from building a better system, or improving OpenStreetMap 3)Cartographers obviously have ownership of the maps they build, more so, they introduce errors to recognize unauthorized copies.

Re: Large Investment in OpenStreetMap from Knight Foundation

#25

Post by icebraining »

bluthru wrote: post #16
AndrewDucker wrote: post #2

How long, one wonders, until Open Street Map becomes the ubiquitous standard? Could Google switch to using it, and feed into it themselves to improve its results further?

It seems a bit hypocritical for Google to have and open source OS that gathers mapping data from a proprietary source. Down the road, I don't want Google to be the only one with enough mapping knowledge to have self-driving car tech. That doesn't seem like data that should be owned by a corporation.

How is that hypocritical?

Re: Large Investment in OpenStreetMap from Knight Foundation

#26

Post by runn1ng »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #5
AndrewDucker wrote: post #2

How long, one wonders, until Open Street Map becomes the ubiquitous standard? Could Google switch to using it, and feed into it themselves to improve its results further?

OpenStreetMap just underwent a rather tortuous conversion from using Creative Commons to the ODBL ( http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/ ) I don't fully understand the ramifications, but it's possible that this was done so that companies like Google could build products on top of OSM data rather than re-invent the wheel, possibly in a parallel to GPL and LGPL or the split between Linux and thing like Tivo or And…

So, if I got it right, if Google uses OpenStreetMap, they will have to make their data available under ODBL?

Good luck with that.

Re: Large Investment in OpenStreetMap from Knight Foundation

#27

Post by ZeroGravitas »

runn1ng wrote: post #26
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenStreetMap just underwent a rather tortuous conversion from using Creative Commons to the ODBL ( http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/ ) I don't fully understand the ramifications, but it's possible that this was done so that companies like Google could build products on top of OSM data rather than re-invent the wheel, possibly in a parallel to GPL and LGPL or the split between Linux and thing like Tivo or And…

So, if I got it right, if Google uses OpenStreetMap, they will have to make their data available under ODBL? Good luck with that.

I think under certain circumstances they'd only need to make the data that they used and/or improved available but to be honest the whole thing confuses me. Like the line between what's GPL'd linux and what's Android or proprietary Tivo code this is partly convention, partly case law, partly a gray area. Maybe, like with GPL'd linux on servers or APL'd Android on phones it'll fit neatly into Google's business plan, maybe they can firewall certain bits off with a bit of effort, or perhaps it'll never work, I don't really know for sure.

Re: Large Investment in OpenStreetMap from Knight Foundation

#28

Post by vidarh »

runn1ng wrote: post #26
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenStreetMap just underwent a rather tortuous conversion from using Creative Commons to the ODBL ( http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/ ) I don't fully understand the ramifications, but it's possible that this was done so that companies like Google could build products on top of OSM data rather than re-invent the wheel, possibly in a parallel to GPL and LGPL or the split between Linux and thing like Tivo or And…

So, if I got it right, if Google uses OpenStreetMap, they will have to make their data available under ODBL? Good luck with that.

That used to be my big caveat with ODBL too. Though the final version of the license differentiates between "Derivative Database" and "Collective Database". Effectively it seems that if your application uses OSM data as one layer, and non-OSM data as separate layers, it would make up a "Collective Database", and you'd only have to release changes to the OSM data itself.

That's potentially a huge improvement.

The problem there is there's a huge grey area as to what will be considered a Derivative Database vs. OSM data in a Collective Databases with other, proprietary databases.

E.g. if the data in the properitary database contains road data that augments the OSM data, will the result of combining it with OSM data in a collection create a Collective Database or a Derivative Database? How well must the separate layers stand on their own before combining them with OSM data is "derivative".

They're trying to walk a very fine line, and I suspect quite a few lawyers will make a decent amount of money interpreting that license for clients that wants to use OSM data but are worried about where the line goes.

Re: Large Investment in OpenStreetMap from Knight Foundation

#29

Post by xradionut »

cobrophy wrote: post #15

While Open Street Maps is an incredible and worthwhile project. The release of iOS 6 this week has demonstrated just how hard it is to get maps right.

It's not hard. It just requires a immense amount of time and effort from professionals which Apple seem to loathe paying.
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