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German government comes out against Chat Control

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Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#21

Post by Tuna-Fish »

ZeroConcerns wrote: post #3

OK, really hot take here: -ChatControl, as it is currently defined, is not going to happen, because it's absolutely stupid and would make impossible, amongst other things, online banking -Yet, there is a growing and legitimate demand for lawful interception of 'chat' services. I mean, "sure, your bank account got emptied, but we can't look into that because it happened via Signal" just isn't a good look -So, somethin…

> -Yet, there is a growing and legitimate demand for lawful interception of 'chat' services. I mean, "sure, your bank account got emptied, but we can't look into that because it happened via Signal" just isn't a good look

Why on earth would mass intercept be necessary or even help in that?

If you got scammed by someone, then you can contact the police and hand over your message history. Why would the cops be interested in someone else's message history for this?

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#22

Post by zwnow »

ZeroConcerns wrote: post #3

OK, really hot take here: -ChatControl, as it is currently defined, is not going to happen, because it's absolutely stupid and would make impossible, amongst other things, online banking -Yet, there is a growing and legitimate demand for lawful interception of 'chat' services. I mean, "sure, your bank account got emptied, but we can't look into that because it happened via Signal" just isn't a good look -So, somethin…

Im sorry but I know my countries history, there is no good in "lawful interception"

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#23

Post by LudwigNagasena »

ZeroConcerns wrote: post #3

OK, really hot take here: -ChatControl, as it is currently defined, is not going to happen, because it's absolutely stupid and would make impossible, amongst other things, online banking -Yet, there is a growing and legitimate demand for lawful interception of 'chat' services. I mean, "sure, your bank account got emptied, but we can't look into that because it happened via Signal" just isn't a good look -So, somethin…

A hot take: removing protections guaranteed by constitution should require modification of the constitution. There is already a "temporary" European regulation [1] that is in violation of the German constitution [2]. CSAR would be a further erosion of the legal foundation. Americans were happy when their federal laws that restrict marijuana use were simply ignored by executive fiat without proper processes, well, they aren't so happy now to see that other laws can be freely ignored too.

If people speak up and say "take away our rights" at a referendum, let that be their decision, not a political backroom deal.

[1] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2021/1232/oj

[2] Article 10 at https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_gg/englisch_gg.h...

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#24

Post by ori_b »

ZeroConcerns wrote: post #15
lukan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" "sure, your bank account got emptied, but we can't look into that because it happened via Signal" just isn't a good look" Do you want the police to regularily intercept and check your signal chats for fraud and crime so this does not happen, or what is the point here?

> You want the police to regularily intercept and check your signal chats for fraud No, that's not how lawful intercept laws work. I want police to be able to obtain a judicial order to intercept, for a limited time, in cleartext, the (Signal chats, or whatever other encrypted communications) of identified parties reasonably suspected to be involved with criminal activity. ChatControl is not that, and it's one of the…

The law enforcement of which countries, under which sets of laws?

Should Thailand be granted access to enforce their lease majeste laws, for example? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-majest%C3%A9_in_Th...

Who gets to decide what gets made available to who?

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#25

Post by gr__or »

iamnothere wrote: post #5
ZeroConcerns wrote: post #3

OK, really hot take here: -ChatControl, as it is currently defined, is not going to happen, because it's absolutely stupid and would make impossible, amongst other things, online banking -Yet, there is a growing and legitimate demand for lawful interception of 'chat' services. I mean, "sure, your bank account got emptied, but we can't look into that because it happened via Signal" just isn't a good look -So, somethin…

I’ll take the malware thanks

while this is a link to the malware site x.com, it is shown in a protective trustworthy hull, called xcancel.com

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#26

Post by jMyles »

A simple way to end the discussion:

No matter what the state says, or what legislatures pass what laws, we're going to continue to live out our right to general purpose computing, including sending only what we choose to send over the wire, and encrypting content as we see fit.

Now let's talk about something else.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#27

Post by rstat1 »

ZeroConcerns wrote: post #3

OK, really hot take here: -ChatControl, as it is currently defined, is not going to happen, because it's absolutely stupid and would make impossible, amongst other things, online banking -Yet, there is a growing and legitimate demand for lawful interception of 'chat' services. I mean, "sure, your bank account got emptied, but we can't look into that because it happened via Signal" just isn't a good look -So, somethin…

Malware has existed nearly since the dawn of computing. Making the world even less secure under the guise of combating w/e today's latest bogeyman is is not gonna solve that. And having secure private communications is not gonna make it worse.

That anyone thinks this blatantly obvious attack on free speech is actually going to be used only for law enforcement is wild to me.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#28

Post by tokyolights2 »

jMyles wrote: post #26

A simple way to end the discussion: No matter what the state says, or what legislatures pass what laws, we're going to continue to live out our right to general purpose computing, including sending only what we choose to send over the wire, and encrypting content as we see fit. Now let's talk about something else.

I like the sentiment but it sounds very similar to Soverign Citizen nonsense. You can't just plug your ears and say that a law doesn't apply to you because you didn't consent to it.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#30

Post by retr0rocket »

ZeroConcerns wrote: post #19
DeepSeaTortoise wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the malware industry benefit from digital message privacy? If you're the victim, just hand over the relevant chats yourself. Otherwise, just follow the money. And if the attackers are sitting in a country whose banks you can't get to cooperate, intercepting chat messages from within that country won't do you any good either. Also, if someone has malicious intent and is part of a criminal network, the people…

> Why would the malware industry benefit from digital message privacy? Because if lawful interception of in-transit messages is not possible or permitted, hacking either the client or the server becomes the only option. You may enjoy reading https://therecord.media/encrochat-police-arrest-6500-suspect... . Or just downvoting me. Or both.

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