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Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

theguardian.com

21–30 of 240 posts

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#21
post #5

Consulting firms are total crooks. Before they used AI, they used just-out-of-grad-school interns... People who've never work in consulting have no idea how crazy the gap is between the price of reports like these and the salary that's paid to the people actually writing them.

Well that’s the core idea - build an environment of hungry folks who don’t quite know how the world works and suck all that you can out of them.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#22
post #3

Can someone explain to me how and why consulting works? If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right, he would be considered a loser. Now make it a company, and corporations and governments queue up for their advice. Wouldn't your own employees be in a better position to give you advice than people who know nothing of your business and who's only skills are googling and making presentations?

In theory, there exist people who are exceptional at solving unique problems/challenges or managing things related to such endeavors. Some might specialize in certain classes of problems and gain experience solving variations for many companies. They might be both underutilized and underpaid in traditional companies for various reasons.

What if you built a company by recruiting such people and sold their expertise at a premium?

I also think assuming there's no real skill at any consulting company is probably a mistake. Or if anything, they're not just all "management consultants" and many of these places have tech consultancies as well. There are also tech companies that are basically specialized consultancies---compsec is probably a very visible area where it's a more common model and at least some firms get some respect for competence.

There's plenty of criticism for consulting firms and it can be very valid. You can probably even dig up stories of bad consulting experiences in the comments on HN.

But I've known people who worked at places where they didn't really have the talent to solve some unique problem, or their own people had caused the problems.

Good consultants will try to pick the brains of employees for insight that's been missed, ignored, or simply wasn't communicated well. They have have problem solving skills that overlap with a good software engineer, such as requirements gathering, communicating with managers, etc.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#23
post #10

AI is a trap too sweet to ignore. Its ruining young folks future by removing the hard effort part of learning, which then builds more resistant character which is more able to wade through daily crap of our adult lives. Some sort of patience with life, its not a skill that comes on its own. And clearly its (almost) everywhere, including companies who should do and know better. AI will make humanity more lazy seems to…

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Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#24
post #3

Can someone explain to me how and why consulting works? If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right, he would be considered a loser. Now make it a company, and corporations and governments queue up for their advice. Wouldn't your own employees be in a better position to give you advice than people who know nothing of your business and who's only skills are googling and making presentations?

A couple of uses of consultants that I've seen at first hand:

- They helped our company to negotiate the minefield of government R&D tax credits, by interviewing all the developers and assessing how much was R&D compared to the guidelines (which are complicated). I think this was a good use of consultants: You get someone with specialized knowledge, and unless you're an enormous company, you couldn't afford to have someone with this knowledge on staff all the time.

- They ran a survey of our software development practices, which they also ran with many other software companies, and then compared our performance to the other companies. I think if you're a completely useless manager with no idea about software, then this could be good, as it might highlight obvious ways that you could improve your processes. For us, it was a waste of time and money.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#25
post #3

Can someone explain to me how and why consulting works? If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right, he would be considered a loser. Now make it a company, and corporations and governments queue up for their advice. Wouldn't your own employees be in a better position to give you advice than people who know nothing of your business and who's only skills are googling and making presentations?

Well, when you have a bad idea you want to implement but don't want to take responsibility for it, you keep on hiring consultants until you hear what you want to hear. Quality of the consulting is irrelevant and interns or AI will do just fine. When the project inevitably implodes, you blame the consultant. Your own employees will give you advice on what's best for the company, not necessary what's best for you so yo…

Exactly. These are paid villains to craft masterplan for multiple layoff rounds. Because the good and loving CEO loves everybody in his kingdom and can’t hurt anyone. The paid consultants are the evil who laid those nice people off. The consultants are the part of modern faceless mega corporations to outsource decision making. The CEO is not liable for any decisions nowadays.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#26
In theory, an official with skin in the game can use a consultant to learn how to avoid mistakes. We don’t have AI smart-enough to speak about new kinds of mistakes (yet). So it seems to me that the public official should be using AI more than the consultant, for now:

- Find prior consulting products (reports) relevant to my situation. Maybe Deloitte produced a great piece of public advice back in 2007 and AI can style-transfer it to my set of 2025 vocabulary and assumptions.

- What would an average citizen, with access to AI, expect me to do on their behalf and communicate back?

- I meet with a consultant and provide AI with a transcript. It should research a reading list for us.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#27
Most of the time gov, orgs and companies don't listen to their in-house engineers but will pay $$$ to some consulting firm, only to confirm the same thing or just to show that "they are taking actions towards the solution".

In some cases there is distrust from management on in-house employees or in some other cases they want to show quick results without distracting their teams from their planned tasks.

Of course there are the cases that managers have personal motives, either to add an extra (useless) achievement on their list or even worse to get referral fee or presents from the external consultancy.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#28
post #3

Can someone explain to me how and why consulting works? If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right, he would be considered a loser. Now make it a company, and corporations and governments queue up for their advice. Wouldn't your own employees be in a better position to give you advice than people who know nothing of your business and who's only skills are googling and making presentations?

> If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right

I love how you summarized 99.99% of influencers and lifestyle/business coaches.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#29
post #27

Most of the time gov, orgs and companies don't listen to their in-house engineers but will pay $$$ to some consulting firm, only to confirm the same thing or just to show that "they are taking actions towards the solution". In some cases there is distrust from management on in-house employees or in some other cases they want to show quick results without distracting their teams from their planned tasks. Of course the…

That’s a kind of due diligence theater. In particular, managers want to know what their competitors’ engineers would recommend, which is the best static advice consultants say they can give.

Re: Deloitte to refund the Australian government after using AI in $440k report

#30
post #3

Can someone explain to me how and why consulting works? If a man had no real skills except giving advice left and right, he would be considered a loser. Now make it a company, and corporations and governments queue up for their advice. Wouldn't your own employees be in a better position to give you advice than people who know nothing of your business and who's only skills are googling and making presentations?

I think that's not quite the way consulting should, and to some extent does, work. The ideal goal of consultancies like Deloitte's is that they hire a small number of people with experience and combine them with a larger number of young bright people and have them come in to review and advise organizations. The people with experience (so who have worked in that field before) direct the engagement and the leg work is…

I have a few acquaintances who grew in consulting to become partners who have never, ever, ever worked in the field they consult for. They've only done consulting, only looked through the lenses they were required to for the job they were asked to do with no real experience in the industry.

The only person I know who ended up at a high-ish position at McKinsey with proper industry experience had as their only job being the founder of a company they worked quite hard for 15 years to build, and sold it. Still, it's someone who only had a narrow experience in their industry which is now advising companies in very unrelated fields.

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