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'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#21

Post by naasking »

johnea wrote: post #10

The article, and the comments here, ignore the worst problem of "AI girlfriends": the fact that someone could think of images, audio, and text, only seen on a computer screen, as one's "girlfriend". The willingness to live in make believe, and the willingness to treat that make believe as if it were reality. This disconnect from physical reality, and the substitution of a fantasy world for reality, is at the root of…

> The willingness to live in make believe, and the willingness to treat that make believe as if it were reality.

Everyone acts on fictions every day, some are just socially acceptable. Like, do you think countries and currency really exist, or are they really just collective fictions we find useful?

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#22

Post by dude250711 »

Dilettante_ wrote: post #9

Terribly skewed article. When I see people talk about things like character.ai or chatgpt relationships, the ratio of women using it is at least 50%.

Well, The Guardian is a liberal-left tabloid. It dares not piss off their target audience. Similarly, it's mirror opposite - Daily Mail - would not publish an article on the benefits of migration.

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#23

Post by johnea »

naasking wrote: post #21
johnea wrote: post #10

The article, and the comments here, ignore the worst problem of "AI girlfriends": the fact that someone could think of images, audio, and text, only seen on a computer screen, as one's "girlfriend". The willingness to live in make believe, and the willingness to treat that make believe as if it were reality. This disconnect from physical reality, and the substitution of a fantasy world for reality, is at the root of…

> The willingness to live in make believe, and the willingness to treat that make believe as if it were reality. Everyone acts on fictions every day, some are just socially acceptable. Like, do you think countries and currency really exist, or are they really just collective fictions we find useful?

You make a very good example of exactly what I'm talking about.

Countries are indeed fictional, and the misplaced belief that they are in some way a natural reality is a significant part of what leads people to start talking about killing each other in the name of their country.

Fictional entities aren't just ubiquitous, they're essential to civilization. Even laws against murder are fictional entities, but I don't think any reasonable person would argue for their elimination on that basis.

The point isn't whether fictional entities exist or not, or that they're all inherently bad or not, it's on maintaining an understanding of what's fictional and what's reality.

Thinking a fictional character on your computer screen is a life relationship partner is a slip away from reality that is surely a mental illness.

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#24

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

casey2 wrote: post #5
kelseyfrog wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I'm not following. What's the common thread here?

This is just demonizing/policing men’s sexuality, which is increasingly viewed as morally heinous.

This isn't new. It goes back thousands of years.

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#25

Post by atmavatar »

johnea wrote: post #10

The article, and the comments here, ignore the worst problem of "AI girlfriends": the fact that someone could think of images, audio, and text, only seen on a computer screen, as one's "girlfriend". The willingness to live in make believe, and the willingness to treat that make believe as if it were reality. This disconnect from physical reality, and the substitution of a fantasy world for reality, is at the root of…

Historically, it's been the case that a relatively small percentage of men have monopolized the available women of their time. Perhaps the most famous example of this was Genghis Khan, to whom something like 1 in 12 men in Asia and 1 in 200 men globally carry Y chromosomes linked to him.

It is only somewhat recently that many first-world societies moved towards more egalitarian, monogamous marriages.

However, dating apps are a big step back towards the original state of human relationships: a small cohort of men gaining the attention of the vast majority of women. The remaining men have few, if any, options, much like it was in the distant past.

Marriage law hasn't yet changed to catch up, but marriage rates are also decreasing.

Can you really blame someone destined to be permanently single for indulging in a fantasy relationship? Is it really much different than someone playing video games where they get to be the hero in a virtual world?

I think I'd prefer single men indulge in fantasy relationships than the time-honored alternative of radicalization and violence, at least.

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#26

Post by tyleo »

Balinares wrote: post #16
cultofmetatron wrote: post #8

At the risk of being downvoted, the dating scene in america is terrible. Masculinity in western societies is heavily pathologized to the point that men who aren't 6ft and very good looking have the deck heavily stacked against them. I can't blame men for turning to AI girlfriends. I myself left the united states and couldn't be happier. There are plenty of countries where its easy to meet women and end up in a relati…

I remain utterly fascinated by the gaping chasm between the kind of men women are attracted to and the kind of men men think women are attracted to.

Reminds me of one of my favorite memes. It has two images:

1. What men think about working out: a picture of a bunch of girls saying things like, “can I touch your biceps.”

2. What working out is actually like: a picture of a bunch of men saying things like, “nice lats bro,” and “what kind of protein do you drink.”

I got a good chuckle. I work out and 2 hits the nail on the head for reality.

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#27

Post by more_corn »

naasking wrote: post #21
johnea wrote: post #10

The article, and the comments here, ignore the worst problem of "AI girlfriends": the fact that someone could think of images, audio, and text, only seen on a computer screen, as one's "girlfriend". The willingness to live in make believe, and the willingness to treat that make believe as if it were reality. This disconnect from physical reality, and the substitution of a fantasy world for reality, is at the root of…

> The willingness to live in make believe, and the willingness to treat that make believe as if it were reality. Everyone acts on fictions every day, some are just socially acceptable. Like, do you think countries and currency really exist, or are they really just collective fictions we find useful?

Religions. Corporations. Legal authority.

All exist only because we believe in them.

You could go to the extreme and say that every relationship exists in two copies. One in the mind of the first member and the other in the mind of the second.

Ai relationships are different because they don’t exist in the mind of the ai. There’s no mind there’s an architecture that does not even attempt to simulate a mind.

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#28

Post by cultofmetatron »

crooked-v wrote: post #11
cultofmetatron wrote: post #8

At the risk of being downvoted, the dating scene in america is terrible. Masculinity in western societies is heavily pathologized to the point that men who aren't 6ft and very good looking have the deck heavily stacked against them. I can't blame men for turning to AI girlfriends. I myself left the united states and couldn't be happier. There are plenty of countries where its easy to meet women and end up in a relati…

I think talking about "masculinity is pathologized" is entirely missing the more specific cause that swipe-style dating apps have completely hijacked the western dating scene, and have incentives aligned with keeping engagement high indefinitely instead of actually finding dates for people.

I think it both along with a bunch of other factors including a shit economy. Just from my personal experience, I've approached women in cafes in colombia, morocco, malaysia, indonesia, greece, poland and peru. With just a modicum of friendliness, I can usually get a conversation going and while not everyone is interested in meeting later, a lot are and everyone is at least open to talking to see where things go.

My experience in America in stark contrast is that I'm ding something outside the social norm. If anything, the onus is on me to prove my motives aren't sinister and frankly it gets exhausting when the few yes's end up with a last min cancellation.

we can certainly argue that social media apps like Tinder set up negative expectations. my experience with Tinder is universally bad no matter what country I go to. But potential downsides of trying to strike up a conversation in these other countries aren't nearly as bad as what I find in America. Milage may be different if you're white (I'm south asian) however.

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#30

Post by weregiraffe »

tyleo wrote: post #26
Balinares wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remain utterly fascinated by the gaping chasm between the kind of men women are attracted to and the kind of men men think women are attracted to.

Reminds me of one of my favorite memes. It has two images: 1. What men think about working out: a picture of a bunch of girls saying things like, “can I touch your biceps.” 2. What working out is actually like: a picture of a bunch of men saying things like, “nice lats bro,” and “what kind of protein do you drink.” I got a good chuckle. I work out and 2 hits the nail on the head for reality.

In my experience, people who work out do it mostly for themselves.
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