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Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

tomtunguz.com

21–30 of 218 posts

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#21

At a "telecom of telecom" we (they) were still lighting up dark fiber 15 years later (2015) when mobile data for cell carriers finally created enough demand. Hard to fathom the amount of overbuild. The only difference is fiber optic lines remained useful the whole time. Will these cards have the same longevity? (I have no idea just sharing anecdata)

I think the chips themselves won't have longevity, but the r&d gone into them is useful. Question is whether the value of that can be captured.

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#22
post #18

Fiber networks were using less than 0.002% of available capacity, with potential for 60,000x speed increases. It was just too early. I doubt we will see unused GPU capacity. As soon as we can prompt "Think about the codebase over night. Try different ways to refactor it. Tomorrow, show me your best solution." we will want as much GPU time at the current rate as possible. If a minute of GPU usage is currently $0.10, a…

With improvements on the algorithm side and new techniques, even older hardware will become useful.

I get what you're saying and the reasoning behind it, but older hardware has never been useful where power consumption is part of determining usefulness.

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#23

At a "telecom of telecom" we (they) were still lighting up dark fiber 15 years later (2015) when mobile data for cell carriers finally created enough demand. Hard to fathom the amount of overbuild. The only difference is fiber optic lines remained useful the whole time. Will these cards have the same longevity? (I have no idea just sharing anecdata)

In 2005 telecom was a cash cow because of long distance charges and if your mechanical phone switch was paid off you were printing money (regulations guaranteed revenue)

This didn't last that much longer and many places were trying to diversify into managed services (data dog for companues on Orem network and server equipment,etc) which they call "unregulated" revenue.

Add written an things business, irrational exuberance can kill you.

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#24

At a "telecom of telecom" we (they) were still lighting up dark fiber 15 years later (2015) when mobile data for cell carriers finally created enough demand. Hard to fathom the amount of overbuild. The only difference is fiber optic lines remained useful the whole time. Will these cards have the same longevity? (I have no idea just sharing anecdata)

New fiber isn't significantly more power efficient. The other side of the coin is that backhoes haven't become more efficient since the fiber was buried.

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#25

I think the fundamental issue is the uncertainty of achieving AGI with baked in fundamentals of reasoning. Almost 90% of topline investments appear to be geared around achieving that in the next 2-5 years. If that doesn’t come to pass soon enough, investors will loose interest. Interest has been maintained by continuous growth in benchmark results. Perhaps this pattern can continue for another 6-12 months before fati…

Not sure why you're getting downvoted.

If you speak with AI researchers, they all seem reasonable in their expectations.

... but I work with non-technical business people across industries and their expectations are NOT reasonable. They expect ChatGPT to do their entire job for $20/month and hire, plan, budget accordingly.

12 months later, when things don't work out, their response to AI goes to the other end of the spectrum -- anger, avoidance, suspicion of new products, etc.

Enough failures and you have slowing revenue growth. I think if companies see lower revenue growth (not even drops!), investors will get very very nervous and we can see a drop in valuations, share prices, etc.

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#26

At a "telecom of telecom" we (they) were still lighting up dark fiber 15 years later (2015) when mobile data for cell carriers finally created enough demand. Hard to fathom the amount of overbuild. The only difference is fiber optic lines remained useful the whole time. Will these cards have the same longevity? (I have no idea just sharing anecdata)

I think the high-density data centers that are being built to support the hyperscalers are more analogous to the dark fiber overbuild. When you lit that fiber in 2015, you (presumably) were not using a line card bought back in 1998.

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#27
Knowing history of past bubbles is only mildly informative. The dotcom bubble was different than the railroads bubble etc.

The only thing to keep in mind is that all of this is about business and ROI.

Given the colossal investments, even if the companies finances are healthy and not fraudulent, the economic returns have to be unprecedented or there will be a crash.

They are all chasing a golden goose.

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#28

I think the fundamental issue is the uncertainty of achieving AGI with baked in fundamentals of reasoning. Almost 90% of topline investments appear to be geared around achieving that in the next 2-5 years. If that doesn’t come to pass soon enough, investors will loose interest. Interest has been maintained by continuous growth in benchmark results. Perhaps this pattern can continue for another 6-12 months before fati…

AGI is not near. At best, the domains where we send people to years of grad school so that they can do unnatural reasoning tasks in unmanageable knowledge bases, like law and medicine, will become solid application areas for LLMs. Coding, most of all, will become significantly more productive. Thing is, once the backlog of shite code gets re-engineered, the computing demand for a new code creation will not support bubble levels of demand for hardware.

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#29
Great points. I am bullish on AI but also wary of accounting practices. Tom says Nvidia's financials are different from Lucent's but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be wary.

The Economist has a great discussion on depreciation assumptions having a huge impact on how the finances of the cloud vendors are perceived[1].

Revenue recognition and expectations around Oracle could also be what bursts the bubble. Coreweave or Oracle could be the weak point, even if Nvidia is not.

[1] https://www.economist.com/business/2025/09/18/the-4trn-accou...

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#30

Are these companies developing InfiniBand-class interconnects to pair with their custom chips? Without equivalent fabric, they can’t replace NVIDIA GPUs for large-scale training.

recent Huang podcast went into this, making the point that custom chips won't be competitive to Nvidia's as they are now making specialised chips instead of just 'gpu's'.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2ieRvuJxrpTh2V626siZYQ?si=2...

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