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Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

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Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#21
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I dunno man, I migrated to the Netherlands and our digital ID is an amazing system that literally makes my life easier anytime i need to interact with something. An open standard for the world to use for this seems like the ideal way you would want it to happen. I also personally think we are going to need some form of digital id and hopefully some sort of attribute based credential implementation à la the DECODE pro…

In Germany it unfortunately failed abysmal. Most digital ids stopped working after like 6 months of introduction of the system...

Hopefully BundID remains

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#22
it's not that without digital ID you didn't need verification. At least in Italy, digital identities means don't having to go attending lengthy queues in public offices, where paper identities where usually checked. Sometimes you still have to do it.

What I agree with, is that some system is needed to help those without an identity, or at the border of the system. Digital stuff can help there too.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#23
I think privacy abuse can be largely prevented if a hard line is drawn saying that digital ids must only be used by the government for government services, such as voting, taxes, immigration, welfare, etc.

If any private parties like banks, social media, or online stores are allowed to check your digital id, they are going to be a privacy disaster.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#24
post #2

I dunno man, I migrated to the Netherlands and our digital ID is an amazing system that literally makes my life easier anytime i need to interact with something. An open standard for the world to use for this seems like the ideal way you would want it to happen. I also personally think we are going to need some form of digital id and hopefully some sort of attribute based credential implementation à la the DECODE pro…

> An open standard for the world to use for this seems like the ideal way you would want it to happen. I get the convenience part. I am from Sweden. We have BankID. I really get it. But in reality, when centralized systems go to shit, they go to shit REAL BAD. So I personally oppose any such measures on both principles but also... it's okay if life is a little bit less convenient. Not everything needs to be ultra opt…

The Netherlands has had a standard for authentication, which is supported by all government organizations, many insurance companies, etc. for 21 years and it only got better with time. I also strongly prefer it over the shitty, broken authentication systems many government organizations, companies, etc. come up with otherwise (we lived in Germany for a while and the crappy systems we had to deal with were endless). Or even worse, let some FAANG company do the authentication.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#25
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This article is written from an anarcho-socialist perspective so it may not be that persuasive to many people. In the US we don't have any official government digital ID but instead various data brokers are providing it... with no real oversight. If the people of the UK reject government digital ID they may get Palantir digital ID instead. It's not clear to me which is worse, the government playing by its own rules o…

We're likely getting Oracle digital ID. The UK gov of course is going to contract it out

We don't they ask some European partners? Some have great ID systems. In The Netherlands we have DigiD, which was developed by a government organization and works very well. IIRC Estonia als has a digital identity system that works well.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#26
The bouncer saying I need to see your ID always rubbed me up the wrong way, not because I objected to being challenged but because they don’t need to know who I am, they just need to see proof of age. Not even that! Proof that my age is greater than or equal to X!

In a world where we would might actually see societal benefits in having people prove things about themselves*, could we not leverage technology to emit verifiable tokens that say “I have the right to work” and “my eyeballs have this shape and are this far apart”** without the world turning into 1984?

(I suppose with enough people there could still be a black market for token generators where you could feasibly buy one that matched a subset of your biometrics.)

* Illegals have the potential to be exploited just as much they themselves can be exploitative. It goes both ways.

** Is it possible to have biometrics that can be verified against my physical presence, but which can’t be used to identify me in a crowd?

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#27
As a privileged European, I am not primed to fully engage with this point of view. The "pro digital id" arguments of freedom appeal to me, for instance it means it's easier for me to have secure, reliable access to my medical data.

That being said, I do appreciate that it must look very different when you don't get access to it, especially when so much of travel and government assistance relies on it. Our digital Id solutions definitely still have accessibility issue for instance. And I do believe that in some societies, it can be (and maybe is) used as a "boot to the neck".

I would say the main goal should be to make it easier for anyone to obtain and use the benefits of these tools, but that it relies on a society where the government protects personal freedom of movement as necessary.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#28
post #2

I dunno man, I migrated to the Netherlands and our digital ID is an amazing system that literally makes my life easier anytime i need to interact with something. An open standard for the world to use for this seems like the ideal way you would want it to happen. I also personally think we are going to need some form of digital id and hopefully some sort of attribute based credential implementation à la the DECODE pro…

Can it be used without a smartphone aka "portable telescreen"? Do they explicitly guarantee this'll remain the case? If not, you're just being hoodwinked via cheap convenience.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#29
I think a digital id in concept is fine but will ultimately be used to exploit or exclude people from the system.

A digital id can be great but it needs some extra decorations to make it better suited to being used in the wild. Some thoughts:

What happens if "the system is offline"? No healthcare that day? No transactions? What are the effects of downtime, whether intentional or cause by hackers etc?

What happens in countries with low literacy rates? Some people cannot read or write, some countries use paper only, how will you travel to those countries?

On privacy abuse, I think there should be an app alongside the digital id, that when a third party requests information, I get the request and I have to approve it. It should have an expiry date attached so that the third party has to delete their records. I should be able to see exactly what data they request. What happens if the system is offline?

A digital id can eliminate many cases where people have to "trust" each other and they would rather rely on the system instead. Lets say the bank asks me to give them certified copies of my id or statements from a different party. Many fraud occur as people can forge documents, so with a digital id, this whole step gets eliminated as the bank can simply ask the gov for the information so they don't have to trust me or that the documents are valid.

Some laws might be needed to ensure that you are forced to keep your data up to date, so that when someone needs to request your home address (as an example, an attorney might need it), they should be able to get an up to date address.

But still, all round with how things are at the moment, such a system WILL be abused, especially by special interest groups, politicians, scammers etc. Technically feasible but the specific society might not be compatible with the convenience it brings.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#30
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I dunno man, I migrated to the Netherlands and our digital ID is an amazing system that literally makes my life easier anytime i need to interact with something. An open standard for the world to use for this seems like the ideal way you would want it to happen. I also personally think we are going to need some form of digital id and hopefully some sort of attribute based credential implementation à la the DECODE pro…

Same in Denmark. It acts as a SSO for Banks, library, 2fa for debit card, hospital websites, all kinds of government services. Makes it easy, because you don't need a new or different account.

Which means the provider can track you across all those. What you spend, what you read, what medical treatment you have.

All just to save carrying a wallet?

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