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EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

washingtonpost.com

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Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely, based on the evidence, is more lies by the administration on the pile of tens of thousands, and another example of actual censorship by the administration historically most famous for it. For an administration which claims that their primary goal is removing bureaucracy and making the government more efficient and effective, these whistleblower reports describing the exact opposite are pretty damning, an…

Could be, but whistleblower reports without documents are still thin evidence. Bureaucratic reshuffles often cause real slowdowns even without explicit orders. If a memo surfaces that shows politicals blocking publications, then it’s censorship. Until then it looks more like dysfunction weaponized by the broader political context.

Maybe, but whistleblower reports are solid evidence on their own, multiple corroborating witness statements even moreso. That's even if they aren't going up against the administration most infamous for lying and censorship, which obviously strengthens the whistleblowers' cases.

For an administration which claims that their primary goals are removing dysfunction and bureaucracy, and making the government more efficient and effective, these whistleblower reports describing the exact opposite are pretty damning, and the objective is clear to all.

Unless we get evidence to the contrary, the most likely explanation is that the administration most infamous for censoring and lying is censoring and lying.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#22
post #18
post #8

I mean it's entirely obvious from everything that this administration does that it fundamentally opposes the entire purpose of the EPA. They want people to think climate change is a hoax, and environmental regulations are in the way of earning money. Wind power is bad, and "clean coal" is good.

> Wind power is bad, and "clean coal" is good. Can somebody explain the psychology behind these beliefs? I'm pretty sure they know how coal is mined. They must surely have heard about the black lung disease and COPD. Where does this 'clean coal' concept come from? And if that's about the products of coal burning, is it too hard to imagine breathing in hot air containing soot, fly ash, some obnoxious oxides, some unbu…

> I'm pretty sure they know how coal is mined. They must surely have heard about the black lung disease and COPD

They do not, they have not, and they do not care. Those people livre purely in the world of words and rhetoric, where the only thing that matters is whether what you say gets a reaction out of people that will lead to you getting more power. Truth is what sounds good.

I know, as a rational educated person it is terrifying to realize that there are human beings who score 0% on the “cares about science and logic and history and truth” scales, but that is the beauty and horror of the human condition - there are many, many people out there whose thinking and mode of operation will be entirely alien to you.

> Can somebody explain the psychology behind these beliefs?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Après_moi,_le_déluge

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#23

And Trump said this would be "the most transparent administration in history" [1]. What a disgrace. [1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/videos/the-most-transparent-admin...

Of course they will say they are transparent while lying about everything. People have been falling for their lies since 2016. Why wouldn't they keep lying? The real question is why are so many people completely willing to sell their country, community, and future to these liars? Ask any trump voter and you'll find various racial nationalism answer to it.

They aren’t falling for the lies, the lies are a mechanism of signaling that candidate is willing to harm those outside of their tribe (they are willing to be corrupt), and sufficient people believe they are in the tribe.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#24
post #20
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wind power is bad, and "clean coal" is good. Can somebody explain the psychology behind these beliefs? I'm pretty sure they know how coal is mined. They must surely have heard about the black lung disease and COPD. Where does this 'clean coal' concept come from? And if that's about the products of coal burning, is it too hard to imagine breathing in hot air containing soot, fly ash, some obnoxious oxides, some unbu…

Study your history. Hurting yourself to hurt others is a well-established political practice in America. Climate issues hit the marginalized much harder than whites. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_in_swimming

> Hurting yourself to hurt others is a well-established political practice in America.

Some folks would rather literally die than have the 'wrong people' have an improvement in their lives:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_of_Whiteness

Do not under-estimate the power of spite/hate.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be, but whistleblower reports without documents are still thin evidence. Bureaucratic reshuffles often cause real slowdowns even without explicit orders. If a memo surfaces that shows politicals blocking publications, then it’s censorship. Until then it looks more like dysfunction weaponized by the broader political context.

Maybe, but whistleblower reports are solid evidence on their own, multiple corroborating witness statements even moreso. That's even if they aren't going up against the administration most infamous for lying and censorship, which obviously strengthens the whistleblowers' cases. For an administration which claims that their primary goals are removing dysfunction and bureaucracy, and making the government more efficien…

Fair enough, I see where you’re coming from. Personally I’d want to see documents or journal confirmations before calling it outright censorship, but I agree the political track record makes it hard to dismiss the reports.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#26

Claims of an EPA “publication freeze” look overstated. Two staffers say they were told to pause, HQ flatly denies it, and no memo has surfaced. Most likely it is a clearance bottleneck tied to the reorg that killed ORD. To staff it feels like censorship, to leadership it is process. Until documents leak I treat this as local slowdown, not agency-wide gag. The bigger story is the reorg itself which centralizes control…

> HQ flatly denies it

"HQ" believes climate change is a hoax, and this admin lies about anything and everything, we cannot take anything they say at face value

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but whistleblower reports are solid evidence on their own, multiple corroborating witness statements even moreso. That's even if they aren't going up against the administration most infamous for lying and censorship, which obviously strengthens the whistleblowers' cases. For an administration which claims that their primary goals are removing dysfunction and bureaucracy, and making the government more efficien…

Fair enough, I see where you’re coming from. Personally I’d want to see documents or journal confirmations before calling it outright censorship, but I agree the political track record makes it hard to dismiss the reports.

[deleted]

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#28
It feels like in the US we need collective, civic organizations independent of the Federal government. I would like to see the Democratic party and other left-leaning / governance institutions / activists on specific issues work to make priorities resilient of the government. Especially since working on many of these issues is popular and not particularly partisan. And many people in upper-middle class would rather donate/work on these causes rather than a private company squeezing 1% more profit.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#29

It feels like in the US we need collective, civic organizations independent of the Federal government. I would like to see the Democratic party and other left-leaning / governance institutions / activists on specific issues work to make priorities resilient of the government. Especially since working on many of these issues is popular and not particularly partisan. And many people in upper-middle class would rather d…

Great idea. Who pays for it?

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#30
post #18
post #8

I mean it's entirely obvious from everything that this administration does that it fundamentally opposes the entire purpose of the EPA. They want people to think climate change is a hoax, and environmental regulations are in the way of earning money. Wind power is bad, and "clean coal" is good.

> Wind power is bad, and "clean coal" is good. Can somebody explain the psychology behind these beliefs? I'm pretty sure they know how coal is mined. They must surely have heard about the black lung disease and COPD. Where does this 'clean coal' concept come from? And if that's about the products of coal burning, is it too hard to imagine breathing in hot air containing soot, fly ash, some obnoxious oxides, some unbu…

> Can somebody explain the psychology behind these beliefs?

They commonly arise when someone is getting paid by the coal company. Just boring human greed, not stupidity or insanity.

> Where does this 'clean coal' concept come from?

Here's a good overview of the marketing history behind the term: https://www.gem.wiki/Clean_Coal_Marketing_Campaign

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