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Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

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Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#21

Post by allenbrunson »

lucian1900 wrote: post #14
allenbrunson wrote: post #2

Here's my own personal perspective. I am very thoroughly in Apple's camp. I have owned several iPhones, an iPad, and more Macs than I can count. This is what I use personally, and what I program for. Although I don't use Android myself, I'm glad it exists. It keeps Apple on their toes. I don't think Apple will make much of a dent in the Android ecosystem, despite the fact that Steve Jobs apparently wanted to. But now…

Alibaba pirated google apps and put them on their appstore. That's different. Android can be forked just fine.

sure, it can be forked. Not even Google is disputing that. They're just saying that, if you want to fork it, you don't get to be in Google's "handset alliance" anymore.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#22

Post by tedivm »

lucian1900 wrote: post #14
allenbrunson wrote: post #2

Here's my own personal perspective. I am very thoroughly in Apple's camp. I have owned several iPhones, an iPad, and more Macs than I can count. This is what I use personally, and what I program for. Although I don't use Android myself, I'm glad it exists. It keeps Apple on their toes. I don't think Apple will make much of a dent in the Android ecosystem, despite the fact that Steve Jobs apparently wanted to. But now…

Alibaba pirated google apps and put them on their appstore. That's different. Android can be forked just fine.

The pirated app thing was brought up after the fact, and really has nothing to do with the original issue- that google is strong arming a company to prevent a competing OS from being released.

Besides, claiming that Alibabi supports piracy because there are pirated apps in their store is the same as saying Google supports malware because their stores have sold infected apps.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#24

Post by azakai »

cooldeal wrote: post #7
w1ntermute wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really quite simple. Acer is part of the OHA, so they have to follow OHA rules. It has nothing to do with Android, and everything to do with the OHA. If they want to use Android in any way they want, they can leave the OHA.

The chilling effect on Android forks is the same, while it is funny that the Open Handset Alliance doesn't seem to be really open. All the major phone OEMs are part of it, meaning that Android forks will have hardware and marketing support cut off from them. >If they want to use Android in any way they want, they can leave the OHA. And basically quit the handset market, as described in the GP post. Isn't that like sa…

> And basically quit the handset market

There are non-OHA Android products that are successful: The Kindle and Nook, for example. Those happen to be tablets and not phones, but I don't see a fundamental reason for that.

> Isn't that like saying if Compaq wanted to ship BeOS or dual boot machine, it could forgo getting the OEM incentives that Dell, HP etc. received from Microsoft?

Almost, but not quite.

First, Microsoft was an absolute monopoly in the market. Android isn't, but it is true that the main competitor is Apple which doesn't let you use their OS, so Android's position as a licenseable OS is pretty dominant. You could say that's not Android's fault though.

Second, in the Microsoft case, Compaq could ship BeOS but it would then have to lose all of Windows. With Android, if you ship Aliyun then you can still use core Android, but you do get that code later, and you also lose the ability to use the proprietary stuff like the app store and maps and so forth.

I agree these are not necessarily huge differences, there is still something to be said for Google having a tremendous amount of power here and is using it. But it is not quite as bad as things were with Microsoft.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#25

Post by will_work4tears »

tedivm wrote: post #22
lucian1900 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alibaba pirated google apps and put them on their appstore. That's different. Android can be forked just fine.

The pirated app thing was brought up after the fact, and really has nothing to do with the original issue- that google is strong arming a company to prevent a competing OS from being released. Besides, claiming that Alibabi supports piracy because there are pirated apps in their store is the same as saying Google supports malware because their stores have sold infected apps.

That's not what I got. My understanding of the situation was that Google is saying Alibaba can't claim to be Android compatible if they are not. Alibaba is saying they are claiming no such thing, but their marketplace seems to not reflect that claim.

They aren't trying to prevent a competing OS at all.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#26

Post by Xuzz »

lucian1900 wrote: post #14
allenbrunson wrote: post #2

Here's my own personal perspective. I am very thoroughly in Apple's camp. I have owned several iPhones, an iPad, and more Macs than I can count. This is what I use personally, and what I program for. Although I don't use Android myself, I'm glad it exists. It keeps Apple on their toes. I don't think Apple will make much of a dent in the Android ecosystem, despite the fact that Steve Jobs apparently wanted to. But now…

Alibaba pirated google apps and put them on their appstore. That's different. Android can be forked just fine.

The Google Play store has plenty of pirated apps on it all the time, which you often have to DMCA Google for any chance of getting taken down. I don't think that's a big difference here.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#27

Post by taligent »

sabret00the wrote: post #9
recoiledsnake wrote: post #5

Andy Rubin: >So there’s really no disputing that Aliyun is based on the Android platform and takes advantage of all the hard work that’s gone into that platform by the OHA. >So if you want to benefit from the Android ecosystem, then make the choice to be compatible. Its easy, free, and we’ll even help you out. But if you don’t want to be compatible, then don’t expect help from OHA members that are all working to supp…

The problem is that Aliyun doesn't simply fork Android and run it's own App Store (as Amazon). It instead tries to rewrite bits, use some bits and create a Frankenstein type monster. Again, that's no real issue. However the real issue is that it's claiming to be Android Compatible, which means it's attempting to market itself off of Android's back. Add that with the fact they've stolen apps and apps written for Aliyu…

You know it's funny but what you wrote sounds exactly like what Google did with Java.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#28

Post by voidr »

josephlord wrote: post #16
voidr wrote: post #13

I think Google's position is reasonable: either Alibaba make Aliyun OS pass the Android compatibility tests, or remove the Android app runtime.

Sounds like what Oracle wanted Google to do with Java/Dalvik/Android. Can you explain why you think this is different or if you thought Oracle should have got their way?

The difference is that you are free to use the Android CTS, unlike the Java TCK, which had a Field Of Use restriction that did not allow using it for mobile.

The big difference is that you can do whatever you want with Android and it's components, but don't expect any help, from the OHA if you are making something incompatible.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#29

Post by ChuckMcM »

cooldeal wrote: post #7
w1ntermute wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really quite simple. Acer is part of the OHA, so they have to follow OHA rules. It has nothing to do with Android, and everything to do with the OHA. If they want to use Android in any way they want, they can leave the OHA.

The chilling effect on Android forks is the same, while it is funny that the Open Handset Alliance doesn't seem to be really open. All the major phone OEMs are part of it, meaning that Android forks will have hardware and marketing support cut off from them. >If they want to use Android in any way they want, they can leave the OHA. And basically quit the handset market, as described in the GP post. Isn't that like sa…

the Open Handset Alliance doesn't seem to be really open

This is sentiment is wrong. Building a phone OS takes a lot of people and resources, that is why you build a community to do it, anyone in the community can propose changes which the community can adopt or not, but the community as a whole benefits. So the OHA is completely open in the community of OHA members.

Alibaba should either join the OHA and contribute their concepts as part of their vision, or Acer should leave the OHA and go work with Alibaba on their own phone OS. But Google objected to Acer having its cake and eating it too, so what? I don't think anyone is being 'chilled' here.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#30

Post by voidr »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #20
voidr wrote: post #13

I think Google's position is reasonable: either Alibaba make Aliyun OS pass the Android compatibility tests, or remove the Android app runtime.

Yes, they can take Aliyun to court for that, but why are they threatening Acer here?

I would not call this a threat, I would call this a "friendly reminder" or a warning. The OHA members agreed not to make devices with incompatible versions of Android, Google simply pointed out that Aliyun qualifies as an incompatible version of Android. They can't take Alibaba to court for that because Alibaba has not agreed to not ship devices with incompatible Android implementations.
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