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Forgoing College to Pursue Dreams

nytimes.com

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Re: Forgoing College to Pursue Dreams

#21

Post by randomdata »

onetimeuse001 wrote: post #9

As someone said, these are bright people and will probably make it, if not they can still go back to college. But for 99.99% of "smart people," college is probably the best bet. Even if you had a few $million, that can go very easily over the course of decades with a few bad investment decisions, medical bills or whatever. A safe job usually provides a steady income for decades and decades. Thiel is set for life and…

> But for 99.99% of "smart people," college is probably the best bet.

Perhaps not. In the USA: Of the top 1% earners, 49% have a postgraduate education[1]. From what I could find, There are 600,000 doctors and 11,000,000 lawyers in the USA which could be said to cover the vast majority of the 49% group.

Of the remaining 51%, 23% have a college degree leaving 27% without a college education. Unless you are looking at very specific fields, it seems you are slightly better off without a degree at all if you are striving for financial success.

If your sights are not set so high, and you're happy with just a regular job: Only 30% of the population have a college degree. That means that 60% (discounted 10% to account for unemployment, which isn't even fair as many college graduates are unemployed) of the population are doing just fine without one.

With that said, you should still go to college. It is an amazing experience that comes with countless positives. Whatever happens in your future career with respect to said education shouldn't even be a consideration.

[1] http://www.gallup.com/poll/151310/u.s.-republican-not-conser...

Re: Forgoing College to Pursue Dreams

#22

Post by nostrademons »

sliverstorm wrote: post #20
imgabe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot to lose, like what? At most they're out a year or two of their time, when they're young. There's nothing to stop you from going back to college at 22.

It's so much easier to say that when it isn't your life you are talking about.

I started college when I was 20, having spent an extra year in high school (startup high school, they didn't have a graduating class the year I was supposed to graduate) and then worked at a dot-com run exclusively by teenagers for a year. Or actually, I worked at a dot-com run exclusively by teenagers for 3 months, then our funding got pulled and I worked as a software engineer for the parent company for 3 months, then the parent company realized their was no money in its primary line of business and pivoted to a completely different idea, then I continued working for them for another 6 months.

Had I not done that, I probably would've stayed a physics major in college, done well, gone to physics grad school, and then realized I hated it when I was around 26 and suddenly ended up with no experience doing anything else and no clue what I wanted to do, a far worse outcome.

I think that there is, in general, far too much fear in contemporary American culture. Fear that if you don't do everything perfectly and don't follow the sequence laid out as a "safe" career track, you will end up screwed for life. Yes, if you end up following your own path, you will get burnt by bad decisions at time, and you'll have to scramble to fix them, and some opportunities will close themselves off to you because you didn't pursue them. But you will also gain practice & confidence in dealing with those bad decisions, and learn how to fix them and that there will be other opportunities that open themselves up to you because you screwed up with what you thought you wanted.

Re: Forgoing College to Pursue Dreams

#23

Post by howcan »

These kids are not foregoing college if you define "foregoing" as "giving up on". They are merely delaying it. All of them have the credentials to attend college anytime they want. And given that they are intelligent, if their projects fail to deliver, they will likely decide go to college. And they will be able to get others to pay for it. They can afford to hedge their bets against the usual path from high school to university.

Every young person who reads these PR pieces will also understand this, so there's no need to worry of anyone not similarly situated foregoing college, only to have their project fail and then realise they have made a tragic mistake.

Right.

Re: Forgoing College to Pursue Dreams

#24

Post by jerf »

sliverstorm wrote: post #20
imgabe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot to lose, like what? At most they're out a year or two of their time, when they're young. There's nothing to stop you from going back to college at 22.

It's so much easier to say that when it isn't your life you are talking about.

I think you're kind of implicitly arguing as if there's some sort of guaranteed path available to somebody against which they can compare their lives. There isn't, and there never was. We hear more kvetching about it today because it can punch a much larger hole in your net worth via loans, but dropping out of two years of college with nothing in your hands is not a new phenomenon. You have to put your chips down somewhere, and it is irreducibly a gamble. Presumably these people putting off college for a year or two are going to go do something; should they manage to completely fritter that year or two away with absolutely nothing to show for it, it's probably not fair to blame that on "not going to college".

Re: Forgoing College to Pursue Dreams

#25

Post by gyardley »

elchief wrote: post #7

Just because you can get into Princeton doesn't mean it's a good idea to pay to go. Full scholarship? Go Parents paying for everything? Go Otherwise, you really need to consider an in-state school, and living at home. You work your ass off to be in the top percentile of students (obviously not a global solution), finish in 3 years, and get a full fellowship for grad school to a place like Princeton. That's how we did…

While elite schools like Princeton have very attractive financial aid packages, even if they didn't, the connections you'll make as an undergrad there are well worth the price of admission. It's not just the education you're paying for.

If you replace Princeton with another expensive private school that's not a feeder system for America's upper class, I completely agree with your point.

Re: Forgoing College to Pursue Dreams

#26

Post by gwern »

rayiner wrote: post #15
001sky wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like most of these kids already have a top college acceptance in had before accepting Thiel's fellowship, which gives them a backup option in the very likely scenario their "dreams" don't pan out. --The double-Irony is that you think the kid has a "fall back option" just because of his letter of acceptance. =D Part of thiel's critique is that education is mis-priced. That the signalling is most of the value.…

I mean that they have a fall back in the sense that they can always just defer their acceptance or re-enroll (if they dropped out) if their plans don't pan out. Colleges are generally pretty forgiving about things like that.

I'd be surprised if the fellowship terms didn't include something about irrevocably turning down the acceptance and officially leaving. (Which of course is not to say that they couldn't re-apply - I rather suspect they'll have a better shot the second time!)

Re: Forgoing College to Pursue Dreams

#27

Post by Nutella2 »

gyardley wrote: post #25
elchief wrote: post #7

Just because you can get into Princeton doesn't mean it's a good idea to pay to go. Full scholarship? Go Parents paying for everything? Go Otherwise, you really need to consider an in-state school, and living at home. You work your ass off to be in the top percentile of students (obviously not a global solution), finish in 3 years, and get a full fellowship for grad school to a place like Princeton. That's how we did…

While elite schools like Princeton have very attractive financial aid packages, even if they didn't, the connections you'll make as an undergrad there are well worth the price of admission. It's not just the education you're paying for. If you replace Princeton with another expensive private school that's not a feeder system for America's upper class, I completely agree with your point.

According to the article, one of the main advantages of Thiel's program is the contacts they make. So how different is it from the Ivy League?

Re: Forgoing College to Pursue Dreams

#28

Post by gyardley »

Nutella2 wrote: post #27
gyardley wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While elite schools like Princeton have very attractive financial aid packages, even if they didn't, the connections you'll make as an undergrad there are well worth the price of admission. It's not just the education you're paying for. If you replace Princeton with another expensive private school that's not a feeder system for America's upper class, I completely agree with your point.

According to the article, one of the main advantages of Thiel's program is the contacts they make. So how different is it from the Ivy League?

The comment I replied to suggested that an in-state school followed by grad school at Princeton would be a better alternative than paying for an undergrad degree at Princeton. I was responding to that.

Re: Forgoing College to Pursue Dreams

#29

Post by rayiner »

imgabe wrote: post #16
rayiner wrote: post #6

I always find it ironic that Thiel, who followed one of the most risk-averse career tracks possible after high school (top undergrad + top law school + top law firm = guaranteed six-figure salary), is so whole-heartedly encouraging kids to not follow in his footsteps. I question what the risk-weighted expected return for these kids ends up being, and how that compares to more traditional career paths. Thiel himself a…

A lot to lose, like what? At most they're out a year or two of their time, when they're young. There's nothing to stop you from going back to college at 22.

I think the kids who get straight A's and get accepted to Princeton before doing Thiel's thing will be fine. What I'm worried about are the kids who hear Thiel talk about startups in lieu of college and spend high school hacking instead of taking AP classes and keeping up their grades. Colleges and graduate schools are very unforgiving about stuff like that.

Re: Forgoing College to Pursue Dreams

#30

Post by yaliceme »

rayiner wrote: post #29
imgabe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot to lose, like what? At most they're out a year or two of their time, when they're young. There's nothing to stop you from going back to college at 22.

I think the kids who get straight A's and get accepted to Princeton before doing Thiel's thing will be fine. What I'm worried about are the kids who hear Thiel talk about startups in lieu of college and spend high school hacking instead of taking AP classes and keeping up their grades. Colleges and graduate schools are very unforgiving about stuff like that.

First: spending high school hacking is not mutually exclusive with taking AP classes and getting good grades. Second: a lot of top colleges would actually be impressed with someone who had the initiative to pursue their own projects and have something unique to talk about in the application. So I don't think you need to worry too much about those kids.
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