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Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

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Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#21

Post by renewiltord »

jimnotgym wrote: post #11

This is how we will lose this war. 'Everyone knows it is fake', probably the authorities too. But dealing with it in modern bureaucracy will take years, by which time another fake insurer is up and running.

It’s important to follow due process. We need more checks and balances, not fewer. Ideally, any accusations like this should first go through a careful examination by a jury of one’s peers rather than just being posted willy nilly.

We need to follow the process. And the process should be extensive. This is a problem of not enough process. Ideally, we could have more.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#22

Post by Simulacra »

For some context, I strongly encourage you to read "90% of everything" by Rose George. It is a brilliant expose of the shipping industry, and it's a really bad industry. Flags of convenience, forcing people to work on ships, not paying them, not even really caring if they fall overboard. The international shipping industry is damn near a hate crime.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#23

Post by diggan »

renewiltord wrote: post #21
jimnotgym wrote: post #11

This is how we will lose this war. 'Everyone knows it is fake', probably the authorities too. But dealing with it in modern bureaucracy will take years, by which time another fake insurer is up and running.

It’s important to follow due process. We need more checks and balances, not fewer. Ideally, any accusations like this should first go through a careful examination by a jury of one’s peers rather than just being posted willy nilly. We need to follow the process. And the process should be extensive. This is a problem of not enough process. Ideally, we could have more.

> Ideally, any accusations like this should first go through a careful examination by a jury of one’s peers rather than just being posted willy nilly.

Does Norway even have juries? At least in Sweden we don't have any juries in court (and the two countries tend to be more similar than not), so while the overall comment sounds fitting (and I agree), some details seem to miss the detail of what country this is about :)

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#24

Post by colechristensen »

renewiltord wrote: post #21
jimnotgym wrote: post #11

This is how we will lose this war. 'Everyone knows it is fake', probably the authorities too. But dealing with it in modern bureaucracy will take years, by which time another fake insurer is up and running.

It’s important to follow due process. We need more checks and balances, not fewer. Ideally, any accusations like this should first go through a careful examination by a jury of one’s peers rather than just being posted willy nilly. We need to follow the process. And the process should be extensive. This is a problem of not enough process. Ideally, we could have more.

Due process needs to be a lot faster and it could be. Things which warrant immediate action are delayed by months, years, or decades by wildly inefficient and slow processes that have nothing to do with someone's right to fair judgement.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#25

Post by stronglikedan »

hn_throw_250910 wrote: post #15

[flagged]

Canada also recommended to leave residential doors unlocked with the car keys in plain sight to reduce the chances of property damage and personal harm when the thieves come for your car, so Canada can get stuffed.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#26

Post by renewiltord »

diggan wrote: post #23
renewiltord wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s important to follow due process. We need more checks and balances, not fewer. Ideally, any accusations like this should first go through a careful examination by a jury of one’s peers rather than just being posted willy nilly. We need to follow the process. And the process should be extensive. This is a problem of not enough process. Ideally, we could have more.

> Ideally, any accusations like this should first go through a careful examination by a jury of one’s peers rather than just being posted willy nilly. Does Norway even have juries? At least in Sweden we don't have any juries in court (and the two countries tend to be more similar than not), so while the overall comment sounds fitting (and I agree), some details seem to miss the detail of what country this is about :)

Haha, I was explaining how it should be. Not how it is.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#28

Post by renewiltord »

colechristensen wrote: post #24
renewiltord wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s important to follow due process. We need more checks and balances, not fewer. Ideally, any accusations like this should first go through a careful examination by a jury of one’s peers rather than just being posted willy nilly. We need to follow the process. And the process should be extensive. This is a problem of not enough process. Ideally, we could have more.

Due process needs to be a lot faster and it could be. Things which warrant immediate action are delayed by months, years, or decades by wildly inefficient and slow processes that have nothing to do with someone's right to fair judgement.

We shouldn’t rush to judgment. A few years sounds like a good period of time for things that could affect someone’s life. One could argue it should take a century or more to convict people of such crimes. How can we be sure it’s not politically motivated? Only way is to ensure that we wait for political change and see if the crime is still to be prosecuted.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#29

Post by andix »

It’s crazy how modern and complex company structures became impossible to govern.

There are so many cases in which criminals just open a ton of new companies, to overload the authorities. Until the authorities shut something down, they moved on three times already.

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