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We can’t circumvent the work needed to train our minds

zettelkasten.de

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Re: We can’t circumvent the work needed to train our minds

#21

Post by zero_shift »

procaryote wrote: post #17

> The reduced engagement with the material reduces the emotional weight of the whole line of action. You mind is an engine that is fuelled by emotion. Without any emotion, you don’t think. Rather, you try to imitate thinking efficiently. This doesn't sound true and they don't seem to offer any support for the claim. There's a whole host of emotion-driven cognitive biases, where an effective counter is to reduce the e…

Isn't your argument a support of his claim?

If emotions did not weigh on recall, surely there would be no "emotion-driven cognitive biases"

Re: We can’t circumvent the work needed to train our minds

#22

Post by HPsquared »

mmargenot wrote: post #18

> You have to remember EVERYTHING. Only then you can perform the cognitive tasks necessary to perform meaningful knowledge work. You don't have to remember everything. You have to remember enough entry points and the shape of what follows, trained through experience and going through the process of thinking and writing, to reason your way through meaningful knowledge work.

A bit like the memory palace. One memory leads to another. Not random-access.

Re: We can’t circumvent the work needed to train our minds

#24

Post by OmarShehata »

procaryote wrote: post #17

> The reduced engagement with the material reduces the emotional weight of the whole line of action. You mind is an engine that is fuelled by emotion. Without any emotion, you don’t think. Rather, you try to imitate thinking efficiently. This doesn't sound true and they don't seem to offer any support for the claim. There's a whole host of emotion-driven cognitive biases, where an effective counter is to reduce the e…

The first thing that happened in your mind when you read that sentence is (1) a bad feeling. That then triggered (2) a rational, conscious thought that interpreted that bad feeling: "this feels bad because it's not true, here are the reasons why it is not true.

There is ALWAYS an "emotional/intuitive" response that precedes the rational, conscious thought. There's a ton of research on this (see system 1 vs system 2 thinking etc).

There is no way to stop the emotional "thought" from happening before the "rational thought". What you can do is build a loop that self reflects to understand why that emotion was triggered (sometimes, instead of "this feels bad because it's wrong", it's "this feels bad because it points to an inconvenient truth" or "I am hungry and everything I am reading feels bad")

Re: We can’t circumvent the work needed to train our minds

#26

Post by firefoxd »

One thing that I like is that things are much easier in person. When someone shows me an AI overview they just googled on their phone, I can say "I don't think that's true." Then we can discuss. The more we talk about the subject, the more we develop our knowledge. It's not black and white.

But online? @grok is this true?

Re: We can’t circumvent the work needed to train our minds

#27

Post by hn_throw_250910 »

A great deal of anti-AI posts as of late seem like milquetoast pearl clutching to me. They don’t want to outright say they feel threatened/devalued but the arguments they put forward are not only unconvincing, but in this case among many others actively work against them.

nb. I tried really hard to not point out the smugness of Zettelkasten which I suspect emboldens this feeling of superiority, because I’d rather sit this one out and see how it goes. Something tells me the AI will win by a landslide.

Re: We can’t circumvent the work needed to train our minds

#28

Post by StefanBatory »

recursive wrote: post #8
RicoElectrico wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If anything the newer generation is more skeptical of propaganda than ever before. Laughs in Polish GenZ voting for Konfederacja (alt-right)

Don't know anything about this particular party, but all the alt-right stuff I've seen leans heavily into skepticism of authority. Not exactly the same thing as propaganda, but might be a meaningful connection.

Their slogan was "Nie chcemy Żydów, homoseksualistów, aborcji, podatków i Unii Europejskiej".

"We don't want Jews, gays, abortion, taxes and EU."

Re: We can’t circumvent the work needed to train our minds

#30

Post by StefanBatory »

RicoElectrico wrote: post #5
alphazard wrote: post #4

> Rowlands et al. wrote about the so called “digital natives” that they lack the critical and analytical thinking skills to evaluate the information they find on the internet. This doesn't match the cultural shift in the last 20 years. A generation of people grew up with chat rooms and immediately discovered the ability to misrepresent oneself on the internet. "On the internet, no one knows you're a dog", as they say…

> If anything the newer generation is more skeptical of propaganda than ever before. Laughs in Polish GenZ voting for Konfederacja (alt-right)

Yup, they don't trust mainstream, only to fall into niches. But they don't see it.

Kanał Zero is the best example.

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