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The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

howtogrow.substack.com

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Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#21

Post by taneq »

carbonguy wrote: post #7

The article details the seller-push (i.e. bad) theory, but doesn't go very far with the buyer-pull - presumably this is where one would get value out of the coaching sessions offered at the bottom of the piece? The dichotomy seems real but hard to actually do anything with if you're in sales. I've done some penny-ante sales work in my past life in what I would call buyer-pull situations. It's great! People find you a…

> But once you get past "I'm selling something so manifestly useful that people find me to pay me for it", it sure seems like the things you, the sales rep, have to do to get their dollars skew rapidly toward the "seller-push" side of things. What else works? Folks gotta know about you and they gotta know you can solve their problems, right?

I don't think there's anything else you can do, other than reinterpret 'manifestly useful' more widely as 'desirable'. Other than just having a legitimately useful product, the options I can see are:

- 'Make the product mandatory in some way' (eg. getting on large companies' preferred equipment lists, getting named as required equipment in a standardized testing procedure, providing an accessible interface to an impenetrable government department, etc.)

- 'Make more people aware of the product (in a non-pushy way) so they can choose to buy it' (eg. sponsoring crazy stunts the way Red Bull does, running an F1 team, becoming associated with celebrities etc.)

These still require an actually desirable product, of course.

Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#22

Post by jagged-chisel »

CityOfThrowaway wrote: post #15

One of the ways you know if you're really practicing this is if you actively disqualify potential customers after the first call. Not them disqualifying you, but you actively saying, "Hey, not sure we are the right solution for you. Seems like you're trying to achieve X, but we're really better fit if you're trying to achieve Y." This is in lieu of trying to convince them that you're a good fit for X, or that they sh…

That’s antithetical to “this period’s bonus.” Who cares if it dies in three months when the bonus for that three months end up in the salesman’s pocket?

Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#23

Post by jampa »

I remember working at a company where we used a vendor extensively in their mid-tier plan. We wanted an enterprise plan with more features, so we reached out to buy it.

So, their salesperson was shooting a penalty with no goalkeeper: All they needed to do was send an offer, and we would negotiate and close the deal.

Instead, they called my CTO multiple times, all at awkward times, like during his lunch. When he didn't pick up, they started calling HIS WIFE. The CTO eventually unplugged the vendor, and we had to find an alternative.

Ironically, another competing vendor we contacted did the same: they never stopped calling, they never wanted to schedule a proper meeting by email, and when you picked up, they didn't want you to hang up, even when you were busy.

I don't know how sales in tech can be so bad. Not even car dealers are like that. If I see a form stating, "Contact us for pricing," I am never doing it. I don't want to be grilled for 30 minutes on BDE calls: "Can you even pay us?" and then another hour of death by PowerPoint until they finally give you a price. That is, if they don't spam calls first.

Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#24

Post by boznz »

I remember my first book. I spent freakishly little time working on the cover, blurb, keywords and promotion before publishing it, because, well, who needs that shit, it will obviously sell itself! So I published it and opened my newly minted Amazon author metrics page daily as I waited for it to take off. I waited, and I waited, two months I waited and not one sale! three years later I have sold a few dozen, though it does seem popular at the local library.

This is how I learnt why marketing and promotion (and I guess luck) are everything and without being an influencer or spending money to get it noticed the algorithm will forever ignore you. Great to see these amazing marketing theories but you need to get noticed first.

Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#25

Post by taneq »

lurk2 wrote: post #16
croemer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case the title is misleading so the policy still applies

I had always read misleading to mean deceptive. That’s embarrassing.

It's often used that way. I'd define 'misleading' as 'easier to interpret incorrectly than correctly', and 'deceptive' as 'intentionally misleading'.

Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#26

Post by hedora »

jagged-chisel wrote: post #22
CityOfThrowaway wrote: post #15

One of the ways you know if you're really practicing this is if you actively disqualify potential customers after the first call. Not them disqualifying you, but you actively saying, "Hey, not sure we are the right solution for you. Seems like you're trying to achieve X, but we're really better fit if you're trying to achieve Y." This is in lieu of trying to convince them that you're a good fit for X, or that they sh…

That’s antithetical to “this period’s bonus.” Who cares if it dies in three months when the bonus for that three months end up in the salesman’s pocket?

Why would you be paying a bonus for deals that die? Sales incentives need to match business incentives or you’re completely screwed.

Also: “Coffee is for closers”

Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#27

Post by dang »

lurk2 wrote: post #10
dang wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a more representative title, so let's use it instead. Thanks!

I’ve seen a few submissions have their titles changed in the last few months. I was led to believe that submissions should not deviate from the original title under any circumstance other than those described on the guidelines. > Otherwise please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize. Has this policy been relaxed recently? I never liked it as I find a lot of submissions can b…

The policy is as stable as fossils in granite. It definitely hasn't changed.

It sounds like the subthread at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45098046 cleared up any misunderstandings but if you still have questions let us know!

Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#28

Post by thrav »

ungreased0675 wrote: post #19

This is not a very helpful post, because it doesn’t provide many clues on how to do buyer-pull sales. It’d be nice if you could just build something useful and have people beat a path to your door, and most of us would probably prefer that, but it’s not reality.

Much of my team would probably qualify me as about as buyer-pull as sales people get — I told my VP my strategy for pipe generation in a QBR was exercising more product influence — and I disagree with many of the author’s points.

I challenge my customers and attempt to convince them they have the wrong approach to achieve X all the time.

Attaching to buyers pain is the only way you’ll ever get anything meaningful done.

Identifying and building the pain and knowing you have the solution is how you create urgency. If you’re doing it right that work is valuable for your customer and your company.

Most people need to see something before they’re willing to invest team time mapping solution to pain / use cases.

Some customers completely drop the ball on deployment. People get fired. People leave and the project gets abandoned. Shit happens. It’s rarely the vendor’s fault, unless it was a complete mismatch, and that’s everyone’s fault.

Re: The buyer-pull and seller-push theories of sales

#30

Post by galaxyLogic »

kukkeliskuu wrote: post #8

I believe (I have done very little sales, so mostly as a buyer) that while all three (buyer-pull, seller-push, Cialdini-style mentioned in a comment below) can work, the best result comes from buyer-pull when you have empathy for the customer. You try to understand the needs of the buyer, and see if what you are selling aligns with those needs. This is needed for effective buyer-pull, because they might not understan…

For a startup it is important to not be pulled to too many directions. If you find one great customer you can co-develop the product with them, whereas having very many customers might take up all your time listening to them.
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