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Untangling the myths and mysteries of Dvorak and QWERTY (2023)

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21–30 of 105 posts

Re: Untangling the myths and mysteries of Dvorak and QWERTY (2023)

#21

In a tech support scenario, Dvorak is always troublesome. You sit down to type at someone's computer, and random characters start popping out.

This is called 'security thorough obscurity' - no one can mess with your computer in case that you forget to lock it (e.g. when you go make yourself coffee at work).

Re: Untangling the myths and mysteries of Dvorak and QWERTY (2023)

#22
post #19

Decided to try Colemak-DH after reading this article and googling: https://andre-wagner.medium.com/colemak-dh-my-journey-to-cha... The only problem I can find is that the only Mac mod I can find with this layout that is not completely custom has an annoying and minor difference with the Windows and Linux versions of the same type of mod.

So did you actually get any faster? I switched to Colemak pro'lly 15 years ago, and while my fingers certainly move around a lot less, I don't think my top speed on typeracer.com has improved over what I was able to do on QWERTY before switching, nor do I seem to make fewer errors. On the whole 1) I do like Colemak a bit better, but 2) I don't think it was worth the switch, although 3) it's certainly not worth a swit…

I type Dvorak around my old qwerty speed. It’s probably not possible to be faster. For really fast qwerty typists, the brain has multiple fingers with the right hand contortions in motion, hitting keys in order, just in time. Dvorak eliminated hand pain by reducing motion, but it didn’t give my brain the ability to orchestrate my fingers with tighter timing.

Re: Untangling the myths and mysteries of Dvorak and QWERTY (2023)

#24
I tried to convert to Dvorak. I even switched my keycaps, but when I started learning with linux application, I finished at level 3. It required me to write three different letters. When there was 1 - it was okay. When 2 - quite nice. But 3 - it made me feel pain in the back and in the brain. It felt like something was going very wrong with my nervous system. I had to quit.

Re: Untangling the myths and mysteries of Dvorak and QWERTY (2023)

#25

According to this article, "a 1936 book called Typewriting Behavior" made "comparisons of the new keyboard to a jeep and the old one to an ox". Jeeps were invented in 1941. Some origin theories of the name date back as far as WW I (but for recruits, not vehicles). If the author truly used this comparison in 1936 it would be a tremendous citation for the word's origin. Or perhaps the comparison was made in a later edi…

This is not the first historical inaccuracy I’ve noticed from this site.

Re: Untangling the myths and mysteries of Dvorak and QWERTY (2023)

#26

Yeah but with QWERTY you can type out the word 'typewriter' using only the top row of the keyboard; so if you're a typewriter salesman QWERTY is the way to go. (Been using Dvorak for 25 years now. Doesn't matter what the physical keyboard layout is - currently I'm using a Swiss layout)

There are no more typewriter salesmen.

Re: Untangling the myths and mysteries of Dvorak and QWERTY (2023)

#28
post #6

In a tech support scenario, Dvorak is always troublesome. You sit down to type at someone's computer, and random characters start popping out.

In general, even if it may not be "optimal," significantly non-standard keyboards (yes, Mac isn't quite like Windows) is IMO more trouble than it's worth.

Back to the author's point: "good enough" is the bar, when we are talking about a choice that impacts millions of users. Changing "good enough" to "optimal" requires gigantic costs in retraining and redesign, and simply isn't worth it.

Re: Untangling the myths and mysteries of Dvorak and QWERTY (2023)

#29

I don't have a particular beef in the great Dvorak vs. QWERTY debate. But I really wish I had a brain which could do things like acquire muscle memory fluency in one keyboard layout without losing it in another. Though, I'm typing this on a swiping keyboard. It's different enough that a better layout might have been worth it here... I feel like I'm not using that much of my regular qwerty muscle memory, and what's op…

> I'm typing this on a swiping keyboard. It's different enough that a better layout might have been worth it here...

Perhaps, but as someone who has been proficient in QWERTY, Dvorak, and Colemak, and who now uses Colemak-DH I can say that I leave my phone and small tablet keyboards on QWERTY.

The separation of common letters in QWERTY forces your finger to move farther when swiping, but that provides a bit more distinguishing information for identifying words. When I tried swiping with Colemak and Dvorak my finger basically scrubbed back and forth across the home row and words were often mis-identified.

There are slightly improved swiping input methods like 8pen, Typewise, Hero, etc but if you are entering enough text to be able to amortize their learning costs you might be better off getting a portable Bluetooth keyboard or just using voice dictation.

Re: Untangling the myths and mysteries of Dvorak and QWERTY (2023)

#30
post #19

Decided to try Colemak-DH after reading this article and googling: https://andre-wagner.medium.com/colemak-dh-my-journey-to-cha... The only problem I can find is that the only Mac mod I can find with this layout that is not completely custom has an annoying and minor difference with the Windows and Linux versions of the same type of mod.

So did you actually get any faster? I switched to Colemak pro'lly 15 years ago, and while my fingers certainly move around a lot less, I don't think my top speed on typeracer.com has improved over what I was able to do on QWERTY before switching, nor do I seem to make fewer errors. On the whole 1) I do like Colemak a bit better, but 2) I don't think it was worth the switch, although 3) it's certainly not worth a swit…

Also a Colemak (DH) user. I agree completely with everything you've written but I'll add that I'm happy I switched even though it was definitely not "worth" it by any quantitative measure.
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