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What the interns have wrought, 2025

blog.janestreet.com

21–30 of 92 posts

Re: What the interns have wrought, 2025

#21
post #7
post #2

I was curious what kind of company needed to develop all these different kinds of advanced tech. Turns out it's just so they can be sneaky and trade shares quickly. Kind of sad IMO.

Can someone who actually understands the topic explain to me (or link good resources) why/if what they do is useful to anyone? Or are they literally just in the business of making money? (anyone except themselves of course. I'm serious, any hints of irony are unintended)

> Or are they literally just in the business of making money?

All for-profit businesses can be viewed abstractly as “in the business of making money”, so this doesn’t really distinguish Jane Street in any way.

> … why/if what they do is useful to anyone?

The utility that Jane Street provides is to the be a persistent buyer and seller of equities. Basically you can call them at any time and buy shares or sell shares. Most shareholders do not trade very often so without a “market maker” like Jane Street it can be a lot of work finding a buyer/seller who is willing to trade on your schedule at the current market price. You’ll have to pay them extra to convince them to trade, which makes it harder to trade profitably. Jane Street significantly lowers the price and makes trading easier (“provides liquidity to the market”).

Re: What the interns have wrought, 2025

#22
post #2

I was curious what kind of company needed to develop all these different kinds of advanced tech. Turns out it's just so they can be sneaky and trade shares quickly. Kind of sad IMO.

People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones. Tech is more parastic.

Re: What the interns have wrought, 2025

#23
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a common rhetoric from someone who has no clue about financial markets (the person you replied to). Suppose you want to invest in S&p500 so you want to buy the ETF. Someone like Jane Street can create sell you this ETF, and take care of the risk that comes along with it. For example, the price they sell you this ETF should take into account the pricing of underlying stocks. While it sounds trivial, doing this pr…

Is that why they got banned in India recently? Because they were too good at offering complex financial instruments to customers at competitive prices? Ultimately companies like Jane Street have no moral rudder and it is a waste of talent for smart young people to work for them, but we are so far beyond such considerations at this point that it sounds naive to even suggest that maybe talented people should work on th…

At the end of the day they are a prop firm. They are a business trying to make money and part of that is market making but it’s not solely market making.

You may not like it but we function in a capitalist society and as such the efficiency of markets is part of that. To have that happen usually requires the market as a whole participating and that includes firms like Jane Street. In the India case I don’t know if what they were doing was illegal or not, India is complicated and the laws there in my opinion are influenced not as much by standards but how well you scratch the itch of others. It is clear the option markets in India was/is highly inefficient in that Jane Street was able to pull the rug over and over. I would be curious who the counter parties were and if this is more about pride of Indian financial institutions not being competent instead of this being illegal. Thinking more about Hindenburg and how India reacted. In the US it feels like a gray area because at the end of the day the options market was clearly clueless on how they should be pricing the options.

Speaking from a US perspective people get thorny on these topics but I think it’s great that folks are always pushing the boundaries. This type of law is tested and we figure out what is ok and what is not. It’s often not cut and dry. Maybe Jane Street was entirely in the wrong in India and they will pay a price. Maybe not. Hopefully their markets learn and benefit from it.

I don’t believe any of us are in a position to say how folks should be spending their time. If we went down that road we could probably argue it back to nobody should be working and should simply be farming for our own food.

Re: What the interns have wrought, 2025

#24

How many of these projects are actually merged to master and live though? I noticed the phrase "worked on" a lot, as opposed to shipped.

My interns always got very speculative projects, the kind that were low probability of working out so didnt want to waste (more valuable) time exploring. If they ever found anything useful it was 100% reworked from scratch.

My preference was for both sides to learn at the end of the day.

Re: What the interns have wrought, 2025

#25
post #7
post #2

I was curious what kind of company needed to develop all these different kinds of advanced tech. Turns out it's just so they can be sneaky and trade shares quickly. Kind of sad IMO.

Can someone who actually understands the topic explain to me (or link good resources) why/if what they do is useful to anyone? Or are they literally just in the business of making money? (anyone except themselves of course. I'm serious, any hints of irony are unintended)

AFAIU the service HFT forms provide to the market is liquidity. Basically allowing you to sell stocks/options as soon as you feel like it.

In turn that leads to more efficient markets since prices converge to their "correct" value faster.

Re: What the interns have wrought, 2025

#26
post #2

I was curious what kind of company needed to develop all these different kinds of advanced tech. Turns out it's just so they can be sneaky and trade shares quickly. Kind of sad IMO.

Agreed. Amongst the top 5% smartest quantitatively-minded kids I knew in college, I’d say ~25% of them ended up at quant shops like Jane Street, sometimes straight out of school, sometimes after doing a PhD.

I can only imagine what good that brainpower could do for humanity if it weren’t occupied finding cleverer ways to manipulate electronic money.

Re: What the interns have wrought, 2025

#27
post #2

I was curious what kind of company needed to develop all these different kinds of advanced tech. Turns out it's just so they can be sneaky and trade shares quickly. Kind of sad IMO.

Reality is far more sad.

Companies like JaneStreet, 2Sigma, etc employ some of the best software engineers, mathematicians, physicists and what not just so they can

    - have better weather forecasts to identify whether a 1 degree delta in South CA can increase oil costs cents on the barrel,   
    - run pandemic simulations to identify how the spread might happen and where inflation will rise so they move faster,   
    - track occupancy rates for pharmacies, hotels, casinos, etc via satellite imaging to identify spikes in usage,
    - track the tiniest of things like butterfly populations to identify increase in earnings for certain brands of hotels,   
    - build some of the most efficient software and write their own compilers
all so that they can move money around [and do so quickly].

Finance is not alone either. A non-trivial amount of big tech is on tracking users and serving ads better.

Do I blame the engineers? No.

I am just lamenting the state of society since this is how we have the brightest among us function and work.

Re: What the interns have wrought, 2025

#28
post #3

I've not heard of Jane Street, but looking at the site, it seems they're quite the tech-savvy group for an _asset trading_ company. And reading the article, they apparently "trade" (pun intended) in quite a few different things from CSS to OCaml, which is really nice to see for a place that doesn't directly deal with software as their [business] product (or did I misunderstand their market?).

Jane Street is a technology company first and foremost whose main product is high frequency training, which is similar to mang of these neo-hedge funds (e.g. HRT, Citadel). Which is contrasted to the more established asset managers (e.g. BlackRock, Vanguard, BRK, etc) which I can say from experience are corps tied down in bureaucracy.

Re: What the interns have wrought, 2025

#30
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that why they got banned in India recently? Because they were too good at offering complex financial instruments to customers at competitive prices? Ultimately companies like Jane Street have no moral rudder and it is a waste of talent for smart young people to work for them, but we are so far beyond such considerations at this point that it sounds naive to even suggest that maybe talented people should work on th…

At the end of the day they are a prop firm. They are a business trying to make money and part of that is market making but it’s not solely market making. You may not like it but we function in a capitalist society and as such the efficiency of markets is part of that. To have that happen usually requires the market as a whole participating and that includes firms like Jane Street. In the India case I don’t know if wh…

The majority of counterparties were regular citizens, who did not understand that what Jane Street was doing was even possible.

Money is debt, you can’t make it without someone else owing it. Taking billions in profits from India’s stock market is pretty straightforward, millions of Indians lost their savings.

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