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I researched every attempt to stop fascism in history. The success rate is 0%

cmarmitage.substack.com

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Re: I researched every attempt to stop fascism in history. The success rate is 0%

#21

Post by fredski42 »

kjellsbells wrote: post #17
symbolicAGI wrote: post #6

Fascism does not work in the long run economically. The grifter state fails. OP Refuted by: Italy (Mussolini’s Fascist Regime) Spain (Franco’s Regime) Portugal (Estado Novo) Chile (Pinochet)

Ok, so the states fall, but not before existing for at least a generation and in some cases effectively an entire working life: - Francoist Spain: 40 years. - Pinochet Chile: 17 years. - Salazar Portugal: 36 years. If you were 22 when Pinochet took power for example you didn't see the end until 39. Your best years lost. And that's the "lite" version. (I ignored Italy because of WW2) If the US MAGA contingent gloms on…

You think Trump is in power? I do not think he really is. He is a puppet. Others are the Puppet Masters.

Re: I researched every attempt to stop fascism in history. The success rate is 0%

#22

Post by bryanlarsen »

mrjay42 wrote: post #20

Could it be a case of "unwanted fallacy"? (bear with me) I mean: At almost any point in time, when fascists are NOT in power, it's because they were, one way or another, stopped. The logic would be: fascism is a systematic/automatic force that wants to seize power, usually by basing its ideology on anti-intellectualism, glorified past, enemies of the nation that must be eliminated/deported, imperialist motives (conqu…

Copying mathgeeks comment on another post:

The actual claim in the blog post:

> Once fascists win power democratically, they have never been removed democratically. Not once. Ever.

Boulangisme never reached power democratically, so not a relevant example.

Re: I researched every attempt to stop fascism in history. The success rate is 0%

#23

Post by peterleiser »

numa7numa7 wrote: post #14

> What would the red states do, invade California? They would shut off the water supply to California

Southern California is vulnerable to that, but not Northern California. California is the largest food producer to the US, including about 1/3 of our fresh vegetables and 3/4 of fruits and nuts. The country wouldn't starve without California, but I sure wouldn't want to experience a situation where California stops exporting to red states.

Re: I researched every attempt to stop fascism in history. The success rate is 0%

#24

Post by peterleiser »

fredski42 wrote: post #21
kjellsbells wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so the states fall, but not before existing for at least a generation and in some cases effectively an entire working life: - Francoist Spain: 40 years. - Pinochet Chile: 17 years. - Salazar Portugal: 36 years. If you were 22 when Pinochet took power for example you didn't see the end until 39. Your best years lost. And that's the "lite" version. (I ignored Italy because of WW2) If the US MAGA contingent gloms on…

You think Trump is in power? I do not think he really is. He is a puppet. Others are the Puppet Masters.

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but (and I'm genuinely asking) what is your point here?

Re: I researched every attempt to stop fascism in history. The success rate is 0%

#25

Post by readthenotes1 »

rbanffy wrote: post #2

One case is Bolsonaro in Brazil. He was elected and wasn’t re-elected four years later. He now will face trial for his attempted coup.

The author even says "Finland 1932 is the only clean win I can find".

So not 0.

Maybe 0 when the future dictator is invited to power as a deep state move, not by the people but by the government?

Re: I researched every attempt to stop fascism in history. The success rate is 0%

#26

Post by foogazi »

sfpotter wrote: post #12
rbanffy wrote: post #2

One case is Bolsonaro in Brazil. He was elected and wasn’t re-elected four years later. He now will face trial for his attempted coup.

IMO this the most apt comparison with the US. Unfortunately we don't have a robust leftwing alternative. We had our Lula in the form of Sanders but we saw the DNC's response. I think if we fail to prevent fascism in this case it is most likely to be the democrats' fault.

Fascism is the fascists fault

Assigning the blame to the “other” side seems like a cop out.

Re: I researched every attempt to stop fascism in history. The success rate is 0%

#27

Post by tmarman »

jleyank wrote: post #5

Perhaps it's time to fork the united states and see how each half goes. One half will have food. One half will have money. There's probably enough guns and enough disorder to keep things messy. Very messy. I guess we can take Irish solution and employ work-to-rule, passive resistance and the like. Prevent the cash from leaving the state, prevent the Guard from mobilizing or leaving the state. Rely on ejecting non-whi…

California represents ~15% of GDP and 11% of the agricultural output including 33% of vegetables and 75% of fruits and nuts. Just saying.

Re: I researched every attempt to stop fascism in history. The success rate is 0%

#28

Post by litoE »

kjellsbells wrote: post #17
symbolicAGI wrote: post #6

Fascism does not work in the long run economically. The grifter state fails. OP Refuted by: Italy (Mussolini’s Fascist Regime) Spain (Franco’s Regime) Portugal (Estado Novo) Chile (Pinochet)

Ok, so the states fall, but not before existing for at least a generation and in some cases effectively an entire working life: - Francoist Spain: 40 years. - Pinochet Chile: 17 years. - Salazar Portugal: 36 years. If you were 22 when Pinochet took power for example you didn't see the end until 39. Your best years lost. And that's the "lite" version. (I ignored Italy because of WW2) If the US MAGA contingent gloms on…

On the other hand, Pinochet in Chile held an election in 1988. The choices were to keep him as president or replace him with a constitutional government. He lost (55% to 45%) and he stepped down, allowing a democratic government to replace him. This negates the main thesis, of a 0% success rate in stopping fascism.

Re: I researched every attempt to stop fascism in history. The success rate is 0%

#29

Post by _mlbt »

tmarman wrote: post #27
jleyank wrote: post #5

Perhaps it's time to fork the united states and see how each half goes. One half will have food. One half will have money. There's probably enough guns and enough disorder to keep things messy. Very messy. I guess we can take Irish solution and employ work-to-rule, passive resistance and the like. Prevent the cash from leaving the state, prevent the Guard from mobilizing or leaving the state. Rely on ejecting non-whi…

California represents ~15% of GDP and 11% of the agricultural output including 33% of vegetables and 75% of fruits and nuts. Just saying.

> 11% of the agricultural output including 33% of vegetables and 75% of fruits and nuts. Just saying.

That's the RED part of California. Just saying.

Re: I researched every attempt to stop fascism in history. The success rate is 0%

#30

Post by _mlbt »

peterleiser wrote: post #23
numa7numa7 wrote: post #14

> What would the red states do, invade California? They would shut off the water supply to California

Southern California is vulnerable to that, but not Northern California. California is the largest food producer to the US, including about 1/3 of our fresh vegetables and 3/4 of fruits and nuts. The country wouldn't starve without California, but I sure wouldn't want to experience a situation where California stops exporting to red states.

The agricultural parts of California are largely red. In this hypothetical scenario, why wouldn't they pull a West Virginia and secede from Southern California to be with their ideological brethren?

If you look at an electoral map by county of the United States, you'll see that the major cities are blue and almost everything else is red. The everything else is the part of America that produces food and manufactured goods.

https://tmp.propublica.org/assets/img/2024-us-election-resul...

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