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Playing every game of Wordle simultaneously

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Re: Playing every game of Wordle simultaneously

#21

Post by shkkmo »

tantalor wrote: post #15
chriskw wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good catch! I didn't know about this, I'll update the footnote. Anecdotally everyone I know was very surprised by KEFIR the other day.

Because it's not a f*ckin' English word!

Is "salsa" an english word?

In english, "salsa" means a spicy dip made from peppers and other vegetables. In spanish, "salsa" just mean a sauce.

Loan words are a well estabished mechanism by which words enter a language from another langues. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loanword

Loanwords spread from their point of adoption into the wider language and can shift from the original meaning, just like other words.

"Kefir" has definitions in every major dictionary and is often used in contexts where all the other words are also english. That makes it pretty conclusively an English word.

Re: Playing every game of Wordle simultaneously

#22

Post by jibal »

tantalor wrote: post #15
chriskw wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good catch! I didn't know about this, I'll update the footnote. Anecdotally everyone I know was very surprised by KEFIR the other day.

Because it's not a f*ckin' English word!

So what is "kefir" in English?

Re: Playing every game of Wordle simultaneously

#23

Post by ktallett »

renewiltord wrote: post #14
ktallett wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point? You play these games to improve your own mind, or for your own enjoyment.

Same as the point in watching dog play with ball. You can also play with ball for enjoyment but sometimes the enjoyment is in seeing the limits of something else.

Is playing a variation of hangman really the limits of an LLM as if so we have vastly over estimated it's usefulness? It isn't a particularly challenging game? for humans, let alone a model that can use data and stats to analyse possibilities and probabilities.

Re: Playing every game of Wordle simultaneously

#24

Post by tantalor »

shkkmo wrote: post #21
tantalor wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's not a f*ckin' English word!

Is "salsa" an english word? In english, "salsa" means a spicy dip made from peppers and other vegetables. In spanish, "salsa" just mean a sauce. Loan words are a well estabished mechanism by which words enter a language from another langues. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loanword Loanwords spread from their point of adoption into the wider language and can shift from the original meaning, just like other words. "Ke…

Just because a word is "in the dictionary" doesn't make it English.

For example, we can all agree "schadenfreude" is not an English word, but it's in the dictionary.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/schadenfreude

There is no English word for "pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune". Yes, we can borrow from German; that doesn't make it suddenly become English.

Re: Playing every game of Wordle simultaneously

#26

Post by jibal »

tantalor wrote: post #25
jibal wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what is "kefir" in English?

English doesn't have a word for that, hence the loanword.

My question was rhetorical. The point is that the English word for "kefir" is "kefir". So English does have a word for that.

shkkmo stated the situation well and nothing you wrote in response refuted anything they said. You say "Just because a word is "in the dictionary" doesn't make it English" but that's not true, as they explained. Virtually the entirety of the English language is "loaned" from somewhere. From the Merriam-Webster definition of schadenfreude: "In English, the word was used mostly by academics until the early 1990s, when it was introduced to more general audiences via pop culture."

You say "that doesn't make it suddenly become English" -- indeed, it wasn't sudden. The word did not always appear in English language dictionaries. It was added when it became recognized as having been incorporated into English--lexicographers are conservative and lag behind actual usage.

Anyway, I'm not going to recreate the entire prescriptive/descriptive debate in linguistics here, especially since "kefir" and "schadenfreude" are English words on both grounds. Enough said.

Re: Playing every game of Wordle simultaneously

#27

Post by shkkmo »

tantalor wrote: post #24
shkkmo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is "salsa" an english word? In english, "salsa" means a spicy dip made from peppers and other vegetables. In spanish, "salsa" just mean a sauce. Loan words are a well estabished mechanism by which words enter a language from another langues. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loanword Loanwords spread from their point of adoption into the wider language and can shift from the original meaning, just like other words. "Ke…

Just because a word is "in the dictionary" doesn't make it English. For example, we can all agree "schadenfreude" is not an English word, but it's in the dictionary. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/schadenfreude There is no English word for "pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune". Yes, we can borrow from German; that doesn't make it suddenly become English.

> For example, we can all agree "schadenfreude" is not an English word, but it's in the dictionary.

I don't agree.

> Yes, we can borrow from German; that doesn't make it suddenly become English.

It doesn't suddenly become English. It happens gradually as more English speakers encounter the word and start using the word.

Dictionaries start adding the word as usage becomes widespread. If a borrowed word is frequently used in an English context by English speakers and is understood by English speakers and that is widespread enoythat it is listed in English dictionaries...it is pretty safe to say that the word is part of the English language.

While I do speak German, I learned the English word "schadenfruede" well before I started studying any German. Similarly, I don't speak any Russian but I know what "kefir" means. I didn't learn it from a Russian, I learned it from other English speakers in the course of speaking English about 20 years ago. In fact, I didn't even know that word originally came from Russian until very recently.

Part of why English is so hard to learn for non-native speakers is because it is full of loan words from lots if languages. Many of them you probably don't even realize originally came from other languages.

Re: Playing every game of Wordle simultaneously

#28

Post by qingcharles »

ktallett wrote: post #8
qingcharles wrote: post #6

ChatGPT Agent is pretty good at playing Wordle. It's banned from the official version, but it'll play the knock-off ones just fine for you.

What's the point? You play these games to improve your own mind, or for your own enjoyment.

It was just a bit of fun to test the model, see what it could do :) But still, more people watch football than play football, right? ;)

Re: Playing every game of Wordle simultaneously

#29

Post by renewiltord »

ktallett wrote: post #23
renewiltord wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same as the point in watching dog play with ball. You can also play with ball for enjoyment but sometimes the enjoyment is in seeing the limits of something else.

Is playing a variation of hangman really the limits of an LLM as if so we have vastly over estimated it's usefulness? It isn't a particularly challenging game? for humans, let alone a model that can use data and stats to analyse possibilities and probabilities.

I watched a cat fall over. It was amusing. This is clearly the limits of cats and we have vastly over estimated their usefulness. I am truly wise.
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