The contrarian physics podcast subculture • Hacker News Board

Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#21

Post by kelipso » Thu, Aug 21, 2025, 5:58 PM UTC

throwawaymaths wrote: post #18

jordanpg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She has gone way beyond this. She is actively undermining the entire academic scientific enterprise, even as she makes money popularizing it. It's unclear why she does this. She portrays herself as speaking truth to power, but -- much like certain actors in US public life these days -- is simply doing the easy work of tearing things down, without doing the hard work of building things.

the scientific enterprise has undermined itself already. Look at how we lost decades of research in alzheimer's as a good example. This problem is WAY worse than even sabines says. If a scientist publishes something sketchy, even sometimes just a little bit, they might wind up sinking years of research of other people who are honest truthseeking researchers just chasing the sketchy results. These good people then bur…

As oppose to industry that blows hundreds of billions of dollars on hype bubbles every couple of years.

Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#22

Post by throwway120385 » Thu, Aug 21, 2025, 5:58 PM UTC

arduanika wrote: post #9

Tim Nguyen has put an extraordinary effort into finding the truth in this entire long exchange, and it's been mostly thankless. His appearance on Decoding the Gurus was a highlight of the show's early seasons. https://decoding-the-gurus.captivate.fm/episode/special-epis... Perhaps you would agree with Weinstein and Hossenfelder that physics today is broken. But that does not in itself prove that the people peddling a…

There's always a grain of truth or some shared understanding to every grift. You can see it play out in how people sell you alternative diets or alternative therapies. "Processed foods are bad. Here, eat this thing that's been boiled until it is relieved of all nutrition." "Preservatives are bad, here eat this vegetable that's been heavily salted."

Beware of people who seem to be on the same page with you, especially when they're selling you their own idea.

Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#23

Post by NitpickLawyer » Thu, Aug 21, 2025, 5:59 PM UTC

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #12

depr wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "just as pop-sci" is a bit generous. https://x.com/C_Kavanagh/status/1956336194352230570 explains it better than I can.

I think that list applies more to Eric. He is definitely in the 'conspiracy of nefarious forces are aligned against me' camp. Sabine, I think she was just referring to how institutions can become calcified around certain ideas. The old concept that 'new' ideas need to wait for the founders of old ideas to die off. (can't remember exact quote).

> Science progresses one funeral at a time

Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#24

Post by deepfriedchokes » Thu, Aug 21, 2025, 5:59 PM UTC

jordanpg wrote: post #11

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #5

Sabine's early video's seemed pretty sincere, and had a lot of valid points. But later, I think the pressure of creating constant content, and moving into non-expert areas, has gotten just as pop-sci as anybody else. Still think she is on another level from Eric who will throw out any crazy idea he can if someone will listen.

She has gone way beyond this. She is actively undermining the entire academic scientific enterprise, even as she makes money popularizing it. It's unclear why she does this. She portrays herself as speaking truth to power, but -- much like certain actors in US public life these days -- is simply doing the easy work of tearing things down, without doing the hard work of building things.

I think it’s Elite Overproduction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_overproduction

Being a contrarian is often an intellectually dishonest way to seek power. Goes all the way back to the serpent in Adam and Eve.

Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#25

Post by tombert » Thu, Aug 21, 2025, 5:59 PM UTC

boxed wrote: post #10

tombert wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I've noticed is people who are extremely talented in one field will sometimes think they're extremely talented in every field. I know a lot of engineers like that (and I'm certainly guilty of that kind of thinking sometimes though the jury is still out on if I'm extremely talented). I have no doubt at all that she understands her niche of physics better than most other humans on the planet, but that doesn't…

> Something I've noticed is people who are extremely talented in one field will sometimes think they're extremely talented in every field. I'm pretty sure Sabine has made this exact statement too.

Probably, kind of funny that the irony is completely lost on her.

I am not in a PhD program anymore and I didn't finish but I was enrolled in one from a good school for a few years. It was for formal methods in computer science, and specifically with regards to functional programming and temporal logic. I probably understand that niche better than most people and I probably could give reasonable educated opinions on it, but that doesn't mean I would be qualified for having strong opinions on biology or physics, or even other fields of computer science really (e.g. data science), even if I had finished my PhD.

A PhD basically means that you were willing and able to work really really hard for a certain amount of time on a very specific subject. Being smart helps but I don't think that's sufficient; I think most people could get a PhD if they were willing to do the work for it. Importantly though, PhDs are extremely focused; in a strange way saying that you have a PhD in physics sort of makes you less qualified to talk about biology.

Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#26

Post by almostgotcaught » Thu, Aug 21, 2025, 6:00 PM UTC

padjo wrote: post #14

> Weinstein released his Geometric Unity paper on April 1, debuting it on Joe Rogan’s podcast We live in deeply unserious times.

i mean he's not a physicist of any sort so i don't think there's anything amiss about this? the "deeply unserious" part is that people can't (refuse to?) recognize that he's not a physicist.

Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#27

Post by dang » Thu, Aug 21, 2025, 6:00 PM UTC

At first I downweighted this article the way we usually do with internet dramas, but on a second look, I think it perhaps deserves better. However, the title is too high-octane (too sensational and personality-focused) to have a good effect on an HN thread.

I've therefore changed it to a different phrase from the article body, which is more neutral and more about the underlying phenomena. It's not a perfect swap, so if anyone can suggest a better (i.e. more accurate but still neutral), we can change it again.

This is not a criticism of the author—we know what people have to do on the internet. But it's in keeping with what we're optimizing this site for: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor....

(Submitted title was "Physics Grifters: Eric Weinstein, Sabine Hossenfelder a Crisis of Credibility")

Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#28

Post by thomassmith65 » Thu, Aug 21, 2025, 6:00 PM UTC

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #5

Sabine's early video's seemed pretty sincere, and had a lot of valid points. But later, I think the pressure of creating constant content, and moving into non-expert areas, has gotten just as pop-sci as anybody else. Still think she is on another level from Eric who will throw out any crazy idea he can if someone will listen.

For anyone who doesn't already know, the term for the phenomenon is 'audience capture'

https://www.gurwinder.blog/p/the-perils-of-audience-capture

Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#29

Post by calf » Thu, Aug 21, 2025, 6:00 PM UTC

jordanpg wrote: post #11

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #5

Sabine's early video's seemed pretty sincere, and had a lot of valid points. But later, I think the pressure of creating constant content, and moving into non-expert areas, has gotten just as pop-sci as anybody else. Still think she is on another level from Eric who will throw out any crazy idea he can if someone will listen.

She has gone way beyond this. She is actively undermining the entire academic scientific enterprise, even as she makes money popularizing it. It's unclear why she does this. She portrays herself as speaking truth to power, but -- much like certain actors in US public life these days -- is simply doing the easy work of tearing things down, without doing the hard work of building things.

She has done nothing of the sort and this kind of narrative is exactly the self-victimization that science-academic industry tells itself to insulate its own thinking. Sabine does not have that much power or influence.

Re: The contrarian physics podcast subculture

#30

Post by throwawaymaths » Thu, Aug 21, 2025, 6:01 PM UTC

kelipso wrote: post #21

throwawaymaths wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the scientific enterprise has undermined itself already. Look at how we lost decades of research in alzheimer's as a good example. This problem is WAY worse than even sabines says. If a scientist publishes something sketchy, even sometimes just a little bit, they might wind up sinking years of research of other people who are honest truthseeking researchers just chasing the sketchy results. These good people then bur…

As oppose to industry that blows hundreds of billions of dollars on hype bubbles every couple of years.

Yeah, that's a problem too. Keynes:

By a continuing process of inflation, Governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth. Those to whom the system brings windfalls, beyond their deserts and even beyond their expectations or desires, become "profiteers," who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished, not less than of the proletariat. As the inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery.