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I used to know how to write in Japanese

aethermug.com

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Re: I used to know how to write in Japanese

#21

Post by gramie »

prokopton wrote: post #3

I have no trouble reading but writing kanji has become a problem. I never need to do it and I can’t remember how to write kanji I have no trouble reading. It’s Japanese people too, to a lesser degree. My own Japanese wife has to pause to remember how to write something every now and then.

This was happening to people I knew when I lived in Japan 30 years ago. Many people were using wa-puro (word processors that let you type in the phonetic form and choose from the appropriate kanji). I imagine the effect is far more common now.

I remember one time when a university engineering professor couldn't remember how to write the kanji for "police". He didn't seem embarrassed asking someone else. I don't know if they still do, but they would often demonstrate by writing out the character with their index finger like a pen in the other hand's palm.

Re: I used to know how to write in Japanese

#22

Post by ehnto »

vehemenz wrote: post #9

I enjoyed this read, but I am noticing that people who claim to have aphantasia seem to write about themselves and their experiences an awful lot. I doubt the phenomenon is real. Some people doubt that sun-sneezing is real, so I can entertain the possibility of being wrong. But sun-sneezing is trivial to demonstrate to doubters, and it doesn’t confer any “I’m special points.” No one would pretend to have it, unlike a…

I would find it more surprising if the brain did not have quirky versions like this, given how complex it is and given how often our genes are not perfectly copied.

Re: I used to know how to write in Japanese

#23

Post by wrp »

> In other words, what feels like a single, monolithic "literacy" ability is actually two distinct skills, each exercised in different instances and each capable of improving and decaying on its own.

This dissociation has been used to test theories of hemispheric specialization. A good overview is in Neurolinguistic Aspects of the Japanese Writing System by Michel Piradis (1985).

Re: I used to know how to write in Japanese

#24

Post by nothrabannosir »

apt-apt-apt-apt wrote: post #18
sixothree wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s real. I didn’t know it was a thing until a few years ago then suddenly everything made sense. I’m glad people are talking about it.

What is aphantasia, specifically? I don't consider myself to have aphantasia. If I close my eyes and try to 'see' with my eyes the letter 'm' or an apple, all I see is the back of my eyelids– pitch black. If I then try to 'see' with my mind the letter 'm', I can imagine the shape and drawing the shape, but it never appears in a physically visual manner. I can trace its lines with my eyeballs, but try as I may to hall…

> Do some people have such a clear and strong mental image that they can effectively inspect, zoom in and manipulate a mental image as well as a real visual image

yes, 100%, and more than that. Even with eyes open I can overlay a completely different environment and stop "seeing" the real world. When I close my eyes I find it difficult to really see blackness. Example: when running laps, I count laps by seeing a giant number fixed in the sky over the lap marker, each number a different material (flaming, made of ice, a trimmed hedge, etc).

Re: I used to know how to write in Japanese

#25

Post by card_zero »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #24
apt-apt-apt-apt wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is aphantasia, specifically? I don't consider myself to have aphantasia. If I close my eyes and try to 'see' with my eyes the letter 'm' or an apple, all I see is the back of my eyelids– pitch black. If I then try to 'see' with my mind the letter 'm', I can imagine the shape and drawing the shape, but it never appears in a physically visual manner. I can trace its lines with my eyeballs, but try as I may to hall…

> Do some people have such a clear and strong mental image that they can effectively inspect, zoom in and manipulate a mental image as well as a real visual image yes, 100%, and more than that. Even with eyes open I can overlay a completely different environment and stop "seeing" the real world. When I close my eyes I find it difficult to really see blackness. Example: when running laps, I count laps by seeing a gian…

Why do the numbers have to be made of fire and ice and topiary?

Re: I used to know how to write in Japanese

#26

Post by wintercarver »

Nice post! Enjoy your blog's overall aesthetic too. Perhaps correlation in sense of style, though, as I also used RTK to learn to write Kanji, loved it, and now, ~15 years after that escapade, am kind of in a similar bucket (can write some characters, but mostly just read). I still think RTK great overall method and would do it again!

Also, shoutout to Fabrice, creator of Kanji Koohii -- that was my first foray into SRS back in ~2007/2008, after which I found Anki (pre-mobile).

Re: I used to know how to write in Japanese

#28

Post by ehnto »

Very interesting, definitely the first step towards writing a character for me is picturing it in my head. If it's particularly challenging I might, still in my head, project it onto the page and that seems to give my brain the spatial data to begin translating it to real world movements with the pen.

But even still I also can barely write maybe 5% of the kanji I can read. As well words are often made of multiple kanji, but if you showed me the kanji separately I don't always recognise them as part of a word I do know. Recalling a kanji into my minds eye doesn't seem to be part of the skillset of reading, maybe just a by-product of long term repeat exposure.

Re: I used to know how to write in Japanese

#29

Post by nothrabannosir »

card_zero wrote: post #25
nothrabannosir wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do some people have such a clear and strong mental image that they can effectively inspect, zoom in and manipulate a mental image as well as a real visual image yes, 100%, and more than that. Even with eyes open I can overlay a completely different environment and stop "seeing" the real world. When I close my eyes I find it difficult to really see blackness. Example: when running laps, I count laps by seeing a gian…

Why do the numbers have to be made of fire and ice and topiary?

It helps distinguish them. Seeing all numbers as e.g. black vinyl makes them blend together in my memory.

Visualizing something lets you leverage visual and spatial memory, but even then: if I were really running past N real giant numbers which all looked identical, I'd lose track just the same. Distinguishing them visually makes them all unique and memorable. The color infuses the entire track and the sky, actually, so it requires little focus, because it's right there in the background.

Basically like the memory palace from Moonwalking with Einstein, but less work, because they don't have to be consistent over time.

(thanks for "topiary" :) beautiful word)

Re: I used to know how to write in Japanese

#30

Post by bapak »

A system fails when its natives don't know how to use it.

So time to sunset the system, surely? I don't know why so many countries are so obstinately hanging onto something so difficult.

Do it like Korea if you don't want to go the Vietnamese way.

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