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Jujutsu and Radicle

radicle.xyz

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Re: Jujutsu and Radicle

#21

Post by stouset »

vlovich123 wrote: post #14
watusername wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From git's perspective, jj bookmarks are just regular git branches, so you can just do `jj git push` and open a PR as usual. However, unlike git, jj bookmarks are pinned to change IDs instead of immutable commit SHA-1s. This means that stacked PRs just work: Change something in the pr-1 bookmark, and all dependent bookmarks (pr-2, pr-3, ...) are automatically updated. A `jj git push --tracked` later and everything is…

And do downstream PRs show just what changed or is the merge target against main which then just keeps accumulating differences? This is one of the strengths I appreciate about graphite which is that the PRs are always on the preceding branch but it knows that when you go to merge it should actually really retarget and merge against main.

Github and GitLab both allow you to specify a merge target other than main and only show you the differences from the target. If that target is merged into main, they're retargeted to main.

There is definitely room for an improved forge experience that takes advantage of the additional powers of jj, but it's no worse an experience using them today than it is with git.

Re: Jujutsu and Radicle

#22

Post by rootnod3 »

frizlab wrote: post #8

Yup. Still 0 incentive to try jj. I’m still very much convinced most of the problems solved by jj either do not exist or are already solved by recent features of git. It’s good alternatives of popular tools exist but git would not be my first bet as a tool that needs fixing…

I mean, undo alone is a killer JJ feature. Sure, you can always somehow undo any git operation if you dig deep enough, but the ease of use on the JJ side without question.

Re: Jujutsu and Radicle

#23

Post by stouset »

homebrewer wrote: post #19
do_not_redeem wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people just enjoy being contrarian. I always enjoy how on jj articles, 90% of commenters tried it and switched, 10% never bothered to try it, and 0% tried it but decided not to switch.

You're reading an extremely biased sample of experiences. It's probably the opposite: 90% haven't tried it, 9% tried and didn't see any reason to switch, and around 1% have switched and won't shut up about it. For an advanced git user, it doesn't offer all that much. I used it for a couple of weeks and can't say that it saved me any time or any amount of work; it was either zero, or so close to zero that I wasn't abl…

> For an advanced git user, it doesn't offer all that much.

As a (former) advanced git user, nothing could be further from the truth. We are always the most passionate cohort of jj users in these threads. This is almost certainly because jj unlocks a bunch of additional abilities and workflows that we've been torturing out of git (or given up on, or didn't even conceive was possible) for years.

On the flip side if all you ever do it git pull, git commit, git push, jj is probably not going to offer you much.

Re: Jujutsu and Radicle

#24

Post by stouset »

IshKebab wrote: post #13
do_not_redeem wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people just enjoy being contrarian. I always enjoy how on jj articles, 90% of commenters tried it and switched, 10% never bothered to try it, and 0% tried it but decided not to switch.

I dunno, I've tried it and I think I will stick with Git for a while longer at least. I really don't like the fact that it automatically commits changes in the working tree. Apparently you can turn it off but.. yeah I dunno. I may change my mind. Especially if they provide a less shit alternative to submodules and LFS. (And I agree this guy is just being contrarian - jj definitely does fix some Git annoyances.)

This was the thing that stopped me from giving jj a shot for the longest time, but it turned out to be a complete non-issue. Definitely don't turn it off!

The "aha" moment you might be missing is that you should consider your latest revision to just be the staging area. `jj commit -i` (shorthand for `jj describe; jj split -i`) is effectively `git add -i; git commit`. If you're worried about accidentally pushing unfinished work, don't be! It won't let you push changes without a message by default, and you update bookmarks (e.g., branch pointers) at your discretion anyway. Both of these mean that `jj git push` isn't going to accidentally push a bunch of in-flight work.

Think of it less like jj commits everything by default, and more like your working copy gets the benefits of change tracking and being able to take part in repo operations even when you haven’t taken a moment to make a commit.

Re: Jujutsu and Radicle

#25

Post by freeopinion »

homebrewer wrote: post #19
do_not_redeem wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people just enjoy being contrarian. I always enjoy how on jj articles, 90% of commenters tried it and switched, 10% never bothered to try it, and 0% tried it but decided not to switch.

You're reading an extremely biased sample of experiences. It's probably the opposite: 90% haven't tried it, 9% tried and didn't see any reason to switch, and around 1% have switched and won't shut up about it. For an advanced git user, it doesn't offer all that much. I used it for a couple of weeks and can't say that it saved me any time or any amount of work; it was either zero, or so close to zero that I wasn't abl…

So you're saying that novice jj users don't get any more benefits than they would if they made an effort to be an advanced git user?

Re: Jujutsu and Radicle

#26

Post by stouset »

rootnod3 wrote: post #22
frizlab wrote: post #8

Yup. Still 0 incentive to try jj. I’m still very much convinced most of the problems solved by jj either do not exist or are already solved by recent features of git. It’s good alternatives of popular tools exist but git would not be my first bet as a tool that needs fixing…

I mean, undo alone is a killer JJ feature. Sure, you can always somehow undo any git operation if you dig deep enough, but the ease of use on the JJ side without question.

The oplog is absolutely amazing. Having such a comprehensive safety net means you can have absolutely zero fear from doing absolutely anything to your repo, because you can always return the repo itself back to a known-good state. It's git's reflog on steroids.

Re: Jujutsu and Radicle

#27

Post by nrclark »

IshKebab wrote: post #12
mac-monet wrote: post #3

Just waiting for Jujutsu to support submodules and I can replace git completely.

I really hope they don't add submodule support. There's an opportunity to do something that works properly!

I feel like submodules are one of Git's most misused features. They're intended as a method of pinning read-only upstream Git dependencies. And when used for that purpose, they're good at what they do.

I think that people mostly get a bad taste in their mouths because they try to use submodules for building multi-repo workspaces where a developer might need to commit in some/all of the repos. They're a bad fit for that problem, but it's mostly because that's not what they were designed to do.

I'd love to see the jj team tackle case #2, personally. I bet they'd do a pretty good job of it.

Re: Jujutsu and Radicle

#28

Post by latexr »

do_not_redeem wrote: post #11
magnio wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why say yup to disagree with the premise of the article?

Some people just enjoy being contrarian. I always enjoy how on jj articles, 90% of commenters tried it and switched, 10% never bothered to try it, and 0% tried it but decided not to switch.

> 0% tried it but decided not to switch.

It’s trivial to prove that’s not true. Just look at the last popular Jujutsu post on HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44643984

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44643763

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44646902

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44645769

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44662803

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44644040

And those are just the replies to the top comment which matched “went back”.

Re: Jujutsu and Radicle

#29

Post by LadyLag »

I started using jujutsu after the last round of blog posts here, and have found it super super useful to my mental model of git and vcs.

Stealing Fintan's `jj tug` alias from this post is something I have already found useful. Highly recommend if anyone is on the edge of trying to just give it a shot!

Re: Jujutsu and Radicle

#30

Post by hju22_-3 »

nrclark wrote: post #27
IshKebab wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope they don't add submodule support. There's an opportunity to do something that works properly!

I feel like submodules are one of Git's most misused features. They're intended as a method of pinning read-only upstream Git dependencies. And when used for that purpose, they're good at what they do. I think that people mostly get a bad taste in their mouths because they try to use submodules for building multi-repo workspaces where a developer might need to commit in some/all of the repos. They're a bad fit for th…

Do you know of something that's good for what people tend to misuse Git submodules for? A multi-repo workspace thingamajig.
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