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Passion over Profits

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Re: Passion over Profits

#21

Post by nine_zeros »

mlinhares wrote: post #10

I'd take the people over the work anytime, the best places i've ever worked at are the places where the people are great to work with, even the slog/bureaucratic work is still good when you have people that are great at what they do and are fun to be around. Varies a lot where you are on your career as well, i'd never take a job that pays less or is "startupy" at this point in my life, i'm here to make money now and…

>I'd take the people over the work anytime, the best places i've ever worked at are the places where the people are great to work with, even the slog/bureaucratic work is still good when you have people that are great at what they do and are fun to be around.

A variant of this that holds true for me is - less corporatized level-based ladder climbing 1:1, more just focus on work.

Re: Passion over Profits

#22

Post by antimoan »

one thing that stands out to me is "Senior engineer" vs "Staff engineer" position. I was in the same boat 2 years ago and had to decide between a startup who hired me as "Senior" with a lower salary with the promise of exiting big where I loved the job and there were many smart people around me, but then I got an offer from a big tech as "Staff" level with almost double the offer and benefits. I had a really hard time to decide, but ended up going with the latter even though the startup job was my passion. However, to my surprise the big tech position helped me to grow in ways that I could not even imagine.

Because it was a higher level position I had to deal with larger scope problems, I started learning about strategic thinking and dealing with large number of teams and learned to lead and be a thought leader. The people are also smart and turned out to be super nice and helpful and used every opportunity to help me grow. Now when I look back, I don't think I would be happier in the position where I thought it matched my passion, as the other unlocked a new point of view and a different perspective and opportunities. So aside from the money and benefits, make sure you are choosing the one that benefits you the most from different angles, passion and salary is just one angle.

Re: Passion over Profits

#23

Post by apwell23 »

antimoan wrote: post #22

one thing that stands out to me is "Senior engineer" vs "Staff engineer" position. I was in the same boat 2 years ago and had to decide between a startup who hired me as "Senior" with a lower salary with the promise of exiting big where I loved the job and there were many smart people around me, but then I got an offer from a big tech as "Staff" level with almost double the offer and benefits. I had a really hard tim…

> but then I got an offer from a big tech as "Staff" level with almost double

I've always heard the opposite ( staff at startup = senior at big tech )

how did you convince them to interview for staff ? were you staff before startup ?

or were you upleveled to staff after the interview process.

Re: Passion over Profits

#24

Post by sneak »

bayindirh wrote: post #7
sneak wrote: post #2

Making more money allows you to donate more to organizations that hire full time staff to achieve your broader goals for the world. Trying to do that with your own work has inherent maximum scaling limits. Earning money that you can then donate to those causes does not. More money means more options, more wiggle room. Also, to me personally, the choice between hybrid and full remote isn’t even a choice.

> Making more money allows you to donate more to organizations that hire full time staff to achieve your broader goals for the world. > More money means more options, more wiggle room. Generally while having less time for yourself and suffering more. That's brilliant. I'll take a dozen. > Also, to me personally, the choice between hybrid and full remote isn’t even a choice. Exactly . Being able (have) to commute to a…

> Generally while having less time for yourself and suffering more.

I don’t find that to be the case at all, though I own and operate my own company and haven’t done W2 work for decades. You’re probably right when it comes to standard employment.

Re: Passion over Profits

#25

Post by antimoan »

apwell23 wrote: post #23
antimoan wrote: post #22

one thing that stands out to me is "Senior engineer" vs "Staff engineer" position. I was in the same boat 2 years ago and had to decide between a startup who hired me as "Senior" with a lower salary with the promise of exiting big where I loved the job and there were many smart people around me, but then I got an offer from a big tech as "Staff" level with almost double the offer and benefits. I had a really hard tim…

> but then I got an offer from a big tech as "Staff" level with almost double I've always heard the opposite ( staff at startup = senior at big tech ) how did you convince them to interview for staff ? were you staff before startup ? or were you upleveled to staff after the interview process.

I was Senior before interviews, I was mainly targeting Staff level when I was interviewing. No convincing needed, I had enough experience to get to Staff level. With Startup I asked them for level up but they said they had limited number of positions and all they can do is Senior at a higher end of it, and can't do Staff.

I worked at the startup for a few months before the other offer was finalized. So I have a chance to get to know what it feels to work at the startup as well.

Re: Passion over Profits

#26

Post by keybored »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #8

Until you've worked at a job where you're genuinely excited to get up every morning and hack, it's very hard to empathize with this sentiment. Doubly so because employers compelling enough to make employees passionate about their jobs often exploit this and have extremely substandard working conditions (exhibit A: academia). Despite that, once you've been genuinely passionate about a job, it's very hard to see the wo…

Empathize with what? Many people have experience with having free time and thus know what it’s like to do things that they like doing. Replace all of this job-passion with the fantasy of winning enough millions in the lottery to retire and yeah, there you go. People already fantasize about that.

But the above doesn’t involve making a profit for an employer. I don’t know if that was supposed to be part of the empathizing.

Re: Passion over Profits

#27

Post by johnfn »

keybored wrote: post #26
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #8

Until you've worked at a job where you're genuinely excited to get up every morning and hack, it's very hard to empathize with this sentiment. Doubly so because employers compelling enough to make employees passionate about their jobs often exploit this and have extremely substandard working conditions (exhibit A: academia). Despite that, once you've been genuinely passionate about a job, it's very hard to see the wo…

Empathize with what? Many people have experience with having free time and thus know what it’s like to do things that they like doing. Replace all of this job-passion with the fantasy of winning enough millions in the lottery to retire and yeah, there you go. People already fantasize about that. But the above doesn’t involve making a profit for an employer. I don’t know if that was supposed to be part of the empathiz…

No one is arguing that people don't understand the concept of being excited. But I think a lot of people would be less convinced that it's possible to be passionate about your work.

Re: Passion over Profits

#28

Post by vjvjvjvjghv »

The problem with passion jobs is that you may get a dose of disillusionment. I worked for 2 years at a startup which had an interesting product and great people. Busted my ass for below market pay but when the company got sold, the deal was structured in a way that rank and file employees got nothing while the founders and top managers walked with multi-millions. Since then I am very cynical about "passion". It often seems to be a tool for exploiting gullible people. Same in a lot of non-profits.

Low rank work for little money while the top guys make good money and fly around the world to meet in luxury hotels.

Re: Passion over Profits

#29

Post by vjvjvjvjghv »

pm90 wrote: post #4

While I understand the sentiment, its often not that black and white. I was in a similar situation a few years ago, with one company doing something novel and "better for humanity" v/s just another saas that paid more. While I was leaning towards the former, what really bothered me was 1) their equity structure was quite pitiful, lower than industry standard and 2) They weren't flexible with remote work. Now, I compl…

"I am very mindful of who gets the "benefits of my passion"

That's a very important consideration.

Re: Passion over Profits

#30

Post by vjvjvjvjghv »

deadbabe wrote: post #16

Passion vs profit is not a dichotomy. If you have a passion for making profit you will never have to choose between the two.

"If you have a passion for making profit you will never have to choose between the two."

That's why I often envy finance people, business people or people whose only interested in a company is to move up. Their passion aligns with profit. I personally care mostly about technology and not at all about business. So to also benefit from my work I also have to think about business which I don't enjoy.

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