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The Poison Within Patriotism

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Re: The Poison Within Patriotism

#21

Post by Anonbrit »

SLWW wrote: post #14

> During a group date, my date's friend wanted to go to a bar. He asked if I could get in without ID because he didn't think I was living here legally. One moment I felt like I belonged with them. The next, I was reminded that I'm not really part of the group. It made me sad to hear that question. I'm not sure what type of self-hatred this is. Someone wants to go to a bar, unsure of the legal status of another, color…

I think that's one of the many lies you're sold growing up in America. On practice, flag wavers are way now likely to be racists. Church goers are more likely to be racist, less likely to give to charity and more likely to mistreat staff when they're out and about.

Patriotism and religion are both cloths people wrap around themselves to convince themselves they're good people, so that they don't have to actually be good people

Re: The Poison Within Patriotism

#22

Post by jmye »

catigula wrote: post #5

>There are groups I'm not part of. This makes me sad. I want to be part of those groups. Yes, but that inherently dilutes the very conception of a group. This is pretty basic stuff. Groups must be exclusive or they have no meaning. I understand this will make some people sad and, unfortunately, that's okay. It makes me sad that I will never be Japanese. What a beautiful country. Man, am I sad. But that's alright, isn…

“You don’t see me as a member of your specific ethnic group because I’m genealogically not” and “you don’t see me as a member or citizen of your country because we’re not genealogically the same” are not the same thing, and it’s deeply (and intentionally) dishonest to pretend they are.

Being an American, for instance, should not exclude anyone who wants to be a part of the group, and the only folks suggesting it should typically have one or two groups they specifically want excluded. That is obviously not all right, however much you’d like it normalized.

Re: The Poison Within Patriotism

#23

Post by SLWW »

quantified wrote: post #19
SLWW wrote: post #14

> During a group date, my date's friend wanted to go to a bar. He asked if I could get in without ID because he didn't think I was living here legally. One moment I felt like I belonged with them. The next, I was reminded that I'm not really part of the group. It made me sad to hear that question. I'm not sure what type of self-hatred this is. Someone wants to go to a bar, unsure of the legal status of another, color…

And what are the values of the flag?

What do you think? It doesn't take a genius to see the flag stands for a certain set of ideas, maybe start searching in the Constitution if you have questions, the Bill of Rights is excellent reading as well.

I choose not to list them all as I will give plenty of good examples of what this country stands for and I will get side-lined by some pathetic talking point from someone who actually still watches the news like it means anything; or a foreigner who hates my country while their own (typically UK) is failing as we speak. We need to get rid of oligarchs and those who are not of our country if we want those good things to keep going

Re: The Poison Within Patriotism

#24

Post by cozyman »

jmye wrote: post #22
catigula wrote: post #5

>There are groups I'm not part of. This makes me sad. I want to be part of those groups. Yes, but that inherently dilutes the very conception of a group. This is pretty basic stuff. Groups must be exclusive or they have no meaning. I understand this will make some people sad and, unfortunately, that's okay. It makes me sad that I will never be Japanese. What a beautiful country. Man, am I sad. But that's alright, isn…

“You don’t see me as a member of your specific ethnic group because I’m genealogically not” and “you don’t see me as a member or citizen of your country because we’re not genealogically the same” are not the same thing, and it’s deeply (and intentionally) dishonest to pretend they are. Being an American, for instance, should not exclude anyone who wants to be a part of the group, and the only folks suggesting it shou…

are you saying Japan is an ethnostate?

Re: The Poison Within Patriotism

#25

Post by catigula »

jmye wrote: post #22
catigula wrote: post #5

>There are groups I'm not part of. This makes me sad. I want to be part of those groups. Yes, but that inherently dilutes the very conception of a group. This is pretty basic stuff. Groups must be exclusive or they have no meaning. I understand this will make some people sad and, unfortunately, that's okay. It makes me sad that I will never be Japanese. What a beautiful country. Man, am I sad. But that's alright, isn…

“You don’t see me as a member of your specific ethnic group because I’m genealogically not” and “you don’t see me as a member or citizen of your country because we’re not genealogically the same” are not the same thing, and it’s deeply (and intentionally) dishonest to pretend they are. Being an American, for instance, should not exclude anyone who wants to be a part of the group, and the only folks suggesting it shou…

It's interesting that there is special pleading for universal membership of certain states and special pleading for exclusive membership of others depending on what I can only assume is their predominant ethnic makeup.

Also, accusing people of being intentionally dishonest isn't some good-faith observation, it's a personal attack and shouldn't be allowed unless you can substantiate your claims, which you cannot because they are baseless. People who do this dined out for far too long on being able to silence people with implications.

Re: The Poison Within Patriotism

#26

Post by SLWW »

Anonbrit wrote: post #21
SLWW wrote: post #14

> During a group date, my date's friend wanted to go to a bar. He asked if I could get in without ID because he didn't think I was living here legally. One moment I felt like I belonged with them. The next, I was reminded that I'm not really part of the group. It made me sad to hear that question. I'm not sure what type of self-hatred this is. Someone wants to go to a bar, unsure of the legal status of another, color…

I think that's one of the many lies you're sold growing up in America. On practice, flag wavers are way now likely to be racists. Church goers are more likely to be racist, less likely to give to charity and more likely to mistreat staff when they're out and about. Patriotism and religion are both cloths people wrap around themselves to convince themselves they're good people, so that they don't have to actually be g…

I usually find people who oppose the flag to be the "soft" or "virtuous" racist types. The comment about Church goers is also most likely due to where you are. Maybe you should visit a different neighborhood, or you are just assuming every white woman with that "let me speak to the manager" haircut actually goes to Church? (Episcopalian doesn't count; they aren't even a real church/denomination)

Again, you should go out more; for your own health if this is how you see "religious" or "patriotic" people.

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