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Flock Now Using AI to Report to Police If Our Movement Patterns Are "Suspicious"

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Re: Flock Now Using AI to Report to Police If Our Movement Patterns Are "Suspicious"

#21

Post by username332211 »

Manuel_D wrote: post #5

Courts have previously held that heuristics based determinations are not sufficient to serve as probable cause. E.g. "predictive policing" technologies can be used for e.g. scheduling officers to different areas, but aren't valid to conduct a search. If this feature is used to make an arrest, there's a good chance the case would be thrown out.

Who says the feature will be used to make an arrest?

The heuristics are clearly about who to pull over, etc. Evidence for arrest/search will be determined afterwards. And, as far as search is concerned, it could be as simple as getting a dog to bark.

Re: Flock Now Using AI to Report to Police If Our Movement Patterns Are "Suspicious"

#22

Post by username332211 »

I feel the ship has sailed here.

Once the police started to record every interaction with the public, along with their existing habit of placing traffic cameras left and right, they acquired enough data to track people.

Trying to restrict the analysis of existing data is never going to work. The police can always point to some death that wouldn't have happened, if they had ran Flock's software on their surveillance footage.

And even if by some miracle you manage to forbid plate recognition, cross referencing, etc, every ambitious (or lazy) detective would start doing it on the down low with OSS software.

Re: Flock Now Using AI to Report to Police If Our Movement Patterns Are "Suspicious"

#24

Post by briangriffinfan »

username332211 wrote: post #20
ghssds wrote: post #3

> With our new Multi-State Insights feature, law enforcement is alerted when suspect vehicles have been detected in multiple states So, using our freedom of movement is now suspicious?

That's not what the sentence you cite is saying. If they decide you are suspicious, they'll get an email alert about your location.

It's not someone "deciding," it's a black box algorithm.

Re: Flock Now Using AI to Report to Police If Our Movement Patterns Are "Suspicious"

#25

Post by superultra »

I live in the neighborhood where Flock started. The three Georgia Tech grads moved into a house in the West End in Atlanta. It’s a great neighborhood but like any urban neighborhood, you often deal with car break-in’s, so the roommates built a prototype security cam.

All fine so far. Except that the direction it was pointed at was the neighborhood middle school. Which means these three notably white college students started flock by surveilled predominantly black young kids.

The neighborhood was pissed - but what are you going to do?

Eventually Flock took off and they moved out.

My point is that if your product started as surveillance on not just another age demographic but a racial and class demographic, is it any surprise that all of this is fundamentally in the DNA of the company?

Re: Flock Now Using AI to Report to Police If Our Movement Patterns Are "Suspicious"

#26

Post by Ntrails »

username332211 wrote: post #22

I feel the ship has sailed here. Once the police started to record every interaction with the public, along with their existing habit of placing traffic cameras left and right, they acquired enough data to track people. Trying to restrict the analysis of existing data is never going to work. The police can always point to some death that wouldn't have happened, if they had ran Flock's software on their surveillance f…

> Once the police started to record every interaction with the public

I don't think this is true? As far as I can tell any time the recording is mentioned in a complaint at the police behaviour the camera was off due to [battery life|maintenance|other].

Re: Flock Now Using AI to Report to Police If Our Movement Patterns Are "Suspicious"

#27

Post by netsharc »

pjc50 wrote: post #17
Manuel_D wrote: post #5

Courts have previously held that heuristics based determinations are not sufficient to serve as probable cause. E.g. "predictive policing" technologies can be used for e.g. scheduling officers to different areas, but aren't valid to conduct a search. If this feature is used to make an arrest, there's a good chance the case would be thrown out.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/emiliano-s-agents-left-beh... ICE are to a large extent above the law. Their entire purpose is to snatch people and move them to locations where they can be denied legal redress. A couple of high profile cases have only got redress due to very dedicated intervention by congresspeople, which does not scale. I think people need to start reckoning with the underlying problem, which is t…

Geez, East Germany's State Security, but with supremely better surveillance tech, and AI.

Curious how "Homeland Security" and "State Security" are equivalent names.

Looking forward to a "Report suspicious neighbors"-program next. Your neighbor made fun of Trump? Report this unamerican activity to Kristi Noem!

Re: Flock Now Using AI to Report to Police If Our Movement Patterns Are "Suspicious"

#28

Post by mapt »

dqv wrote: post #19
garbagewoman wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the police even inform you that flock was used?

Why? Because the prosecutor doesn't want all their work to go to waste because they didn't disclose Brady evidence. Even if they successfully argue that Officer Flock's reporting isn't exculpatory, they still have to do extra work to respond to a Brady motion for a case that already got a conviction.

In cases of parallel construction of evidence, is the prosecution still obligated to disclose everything to the defense in discovery? Is the tree from which the Fruit is picked only obscured from the jury, or from the defense as well?

Re: Flock Now Using AI to Report to Police If Our Movement Patterns Are "Suspicious"

#29

Post by mapt »

Ntrails wrote: post #26
username332211 wrote: post #22

I feel the ship has sailed here. Once the police started to record every interaction with the public, along with their existing habit of placing traffic cameras left and right, they acquired enough data to track people. Trying to restrict the analysis of existing data is never going to work. The police can always point to some death that wouldn't have happened, if they had ran Flock's software on their surveillance f…

> Once the police started to record every interaction with the public I don't think this is true? As far as I can tell any time the recording is mentioned in a complaint at the police behaviour the camera was off due to [battery life|maintenance|other].

I get the feeling that judges & juries are less and less likely to give the benefit of the doubt if charges/lawsuits are ever actually filed against the officer, year by year.

You also get just rank intimidation. My friend got out of jail and the next day tried to file a complaint about an officer stealing his pocket money during an arrest. He was placed in a room with the arresting officer, who explained that any complaint which was filed would incur retribution from the DA with regards to the thing that got him arrested. This is happening in a large urbanized precinct, in a blue state.

To ever regain control of the police force, the various civilian & political oversight bodies would need to prosecute thousands of felony exortion, kidnapping, and assault cases a year.

Re: Flock Now Using AI to Report to Police If Our Movement Patterns Are "Suspicious"

#30

Post by _mlbt »

netsharc wrote: post #27
pjc50 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/emiliano-s-agents-left-beh... ICE are to a large extent above the law. Their entire purpose is to snatch people and move them to locations where they can be denied legal redress. A couple of high profile cases have only got redress due to very dedicated intervention by congresspeople, which does not scale. I think people need to start reckoning with the underlying problem, which is t…

Geez, East Germany's State Security, but with supremely better surveillance tech, and AI. Curious how "Homeland Security" and "State Security" are equivalent names. Looking forward to a "Report suspicious neighbors"-program next. Your neighbor made fun of Trump? Report this unamerican activity to Kristi Noem!

Minnesota implemented this during COVID…

https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/coronavirus-in-minnes...

I’m sure there are also ways to anonymously report illegal immigrants to ICE as well. People are still free to criticize Trump all they want. The First Amendment is pretty clear on this.

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