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Debian 13 “Trixie”

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Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#21

Post by amtamt »

hiprob wrote: post #9

I can't believe we've come to such a high number, and a particularly lucky one at that Alas it's still not suitable as a daily driver for the average home user and probably never will be. It is unfortunate that Ubuntu has to reign supreme in that regard.

Two kids in 4 to 16 range, and two adults in 30 to 46 age ranges have been using Debian on daily basis for almost a decade now. At least three of them are pretty "average home user". There has been forced use of windows (since school and employers wanted), but for home use Debian has always been better due to less maintenance needs and no distractions.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#22

Post by zozbot234 »

accrual wrote: post #17

> i386 is no longer supported as a regular architecture: there is no official kernel and no Debian installer for i386 systems. The i386 architecture is now only intended to be used on a 64-bit (amd64) CPU. Users running i386 systems should not upgrade to trixie. Instead, Debian recommends either reinstalling them as amd64, where possible, or retiring the hardware. Impressive that i386 support made it all the way to A…

Hopefully i386 (or perhaps a new i386-like port with added support for 64-bit time values) can move to the unofficial Debian Ports infrastructure for Debian 14 (forky) or Debian 15 (duke). Debian Ports has a m68k port, so supporting one for i386 shouldn't be a huge problem.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#23

Post by josteink »

stouset wrote: post #15
heikkilevanto wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed. I honestly do not know what you are referring to. Even if I had to take your "sexual predator" at face value, I would still have to balance that against the good stable reliable distro they have been done for so many years.

I too had no idea what he’s talking about, so I did some digging. So, an open-source contributor who works for Canonical on Ubuntu gave a talk at Debconf. He is a convicted and admitted sexual predator who served time in prison for his crimes. This all is pretty well-documented. But… then what? He did the time for his crimes. He’s on the national sex offender registry. What now? Should he be unemployable? Should his…

> Should his contributions to open-source projects be rejected?

As someone whose attitude towards open-source is that it's the code who should do the talking, and not who contributed it (nor the colour of their skin, or their sexual orientation, etc) ... I'd say he should be able to contribute code, as long as the code is good enough. Same rule as every other code-contribution.

But the Debian-project has made the decision to elevate him and have him represent Debian at conferences like DebConf, and that strikes me as something some people might find more objectionable.

Even after having served his time, there's still a certain stain there, and it's up to the Debian project to what degree they want that stain to reflect on them as well.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#24

Post by accrual »

hiprob wrote: post #9

I can't believe we've come to such a high number, and a particularly lucky one at that Alas it's still not suitable as a daily driver for the average home user and probably never will be. It is unfortunate that Ubuntu has to reign supreme in that regard.

> Alas it's still not suitable as a daily driver for the average home user

I think that's fine for Debian. Maybe even a good thing.

Debian supplies a rock solid base for many general purpose tasks. Ubuntu and other distros are free to package that up in a user friendly way, but as a technical user I want to be able to go upstream and get a basic Linux system without extra stuff.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#25

Post by ACS_Solver »

Writing this from my Debian system, it's a great distro that has been excellent to me as a daily driver. I switched to Debian 6 after Ubuntu went way downhill and haven't had cause to regret it.

I like Debian's measured pragmatism with ideology, how it's a distro of free software by default but it also makes it easy to install non-free software or firmware blobs. I like Debian's package guidelines, I like dpkg, I like the Debian documentation even if Arch remains the best on that front. I like the stable/testing package streams, which make it easy to choose old but rock-stable vs just a bit old and almost as stable.

And one of the best parts is, I've never had a Debian system break without it being my fault in some way. Every case I've had of Debian being outright unbootable or having other serious problems, it's been due to me trying to add things from third-party repositories, or messing up the configuration or something else, but not a fault of the Debian system itself.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#26

Post by josteink »

hiprob wrote: post #9

I can't believe we've come to such a high number, and a particularly lucky one at that Alas it's still not suitable as a daily driver for the average home user and probably never will be. It is unfortunate that Ubuntu has to reign supreme in that regard.

Don't feed the troll, etc... But I just had to bite on this bit:

> Alas it's still not suitable as a daily driver for the average home user and probably never will be. It is unfortunate that Ubuntu has to reign supreme in that regard.

It's true that Ubuntu used to be the OOB ready version of Debian, which "just worked", while base Debian took look of fiddling to even have wifi working.

These day though I find the opposite to be true: Ubuntu does lots of weird things I don't want, and I have to "fiddle" to disable all that. A base Debian install however (ISO with firmware bundled), just works.

For me, Ubuntu is officially off my list of distros I bother spending my time on.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#27

Post by NewJazz »

accrual wrote: post #17

> i386 is no longer supported as a regular architecture: there is no official kernel and no Debian installer for i386 systems. The i386 architecture is now only intended to be used on a 64-bit (amd64) CPU. Users running i386 systems should not upgrade to trixie. Instead, Debian recommends either reinstalling them as amd64, where possible, or retiring the hardware. Impressive that i386 support made it all the way to A…

Well, isn't there an additional year or so of support for old stable? So beyond 2025.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#29

Post by master_crab »

Debian 13 trixie includes numerous updated software packages (over 63% of all packages from the previous release)

I’m not familiar with the metric definition they use, but I’d be worried if close to 100% of the packages they included in bookworm hadn’t been updated in the roughly 2 years between releases.

I use Debian for most of my servers, so I’m sure there is a valid explanation of that phrase.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#30

Post by binwiederhier »

Thank you to all the Debian volunteers that make Debian and all its derivatives possible. It's remarkable how many people and businesses have been enabled by your work. Thank you!

On a personal note, Trixie is very exciting for me because my side project, ntfy [1], was packaged [2] and is now included in Trixie. I only learned about the fact that it was included very late in cycle when the package maintainer asked for license clarifications. As a result the Debian-ized version of ntfy doesn't contain a web app (which is a reaaal bummer), and has a few things "patched out" (which is fine). I approached the maintainer and just recently added build tags [3] to make it easier to remove Stripe, Firebase and WebPush, so that the next Debian-ized version will not have to contain (so many) awkward patches.

As an "upstream maintainer", I must say it isn't obvious at all why the web app wasn't included. It was clearly removed on purpose [4], but I don't really know what to do to get it into the next Debian release. Doing an "apt install ntfy" is going to be quite disappointing for most if the web app doesn't work. Any help or guidance is very welcome!

[1] https://github.com/binwiederhier/ntfy

[2] https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/ntfy

[3] https://github.com/binwiederhier/ntfy/pull/1420

[4] https://salsa.debian.org/ahmadkhalifa/ntfy/-/blob/debian/lat...

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