Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Residents cheer as Tucson rejects data center campus

datacenterdynamics.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 41 posts

Re: Residents cheer as Tucson rejects data center campus

#21

Post by JumpCrisscross »

EA-3167 wrote: post #10
jandrewrogers wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should water be used for then? They do large-scale agriculture in the same area, which uses several orders of magnitude more water while generating substantially less value.

Food that people and livestock eat is less valuable than data centers used to chase the "AGI any day now" pipe dream? You're kidding right?

> Food that people and livestock eat is less valuable than data centers

This is objectively false, particularly when we consider that much of that food and water are exported. It’s also irrelevant in Tucson, which doesn’t have Central Valley syndrome.

Re: Residents cheer as Tucson rejects data center campus

#22

Post by UncleOxidant »

morkalork wrote: post #11
EA-3167 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Food that people and livestock eat is less valuable than data centers used to chase the "AGI any day now" pipe dream? You're kidding right?

Let the people eat and drink slop

* AI slop

Re: Residents cheer as Tucson rejects data center campus

#23

Post by UncleOxidant »

polski-g wrote: post #19
time_is_scary wrote: post #6

> Update: Brendan Gallagher, Beale's SVP of development, said in a statement: “We are disappointed in the decision not to pursue this opportunity for Tucson. [...] We see it as a missed opportunity for the city, as this project potentially represents tens of millions of dollars in tax revenue, hundreds of millions of dollars in infrastructure to serve the community, and thousands of high-paying local and union jobs.”…

Datacenters do not employ thousands of jobs. They employ about 5.

and those definitely aren't union jobs.

Re: Residents cheer as Tucson rejects data center campus

#24

Post by EA-3167 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #21
EA-3167 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Food that people and livestock eat is less valuable than data centers used to chase the "AGI any day now" pipe dream? You're kidding right?

> Food that people and livestock eat is less valuable than data centers This is objectively false, particularly when we consider that much of that food and water are exported. It’s also irrelevant in Tucson, which doesn’t have Central Valley syndrome.

You... do understand that it isn't exported to be incinerated, it's exported in return for money, and then people and livestock in other countries eat that food. The fact that there's a transaction in the middle of the process doesn't change the value proposition, just like the absurd overvaluation of all things AI doesn't change the value proposition there either.

Re: Residents cheer as Tucson rejects data center campus

#25

Post by joshuaheard »

sitkack wrote: post #2

Good for them. No groundwater for data centers! Data centers should be run closed loop, if they can't, they shouldn't exist. AZ should also make them generate at least 70% of their power onsite.

It was going to use 1% of the available recycled water. That's about the equivalent usage of a medium size farm.

Re: Residents cheer as Tucson rejects data center campus

#26

Post by Mars008 »

time_is_scary wrote: post #6

> Update: Brendan Gallagher, Beale's SVP of development, said in a statement: “We are disappointed in the decision not to pursue this opportunity for Tucson. [...] We see it as a missed opportunity for the city, as this project potentially represents tens of millions of dollars in tax revenue, hundreds of millions of dollars in infrastructure to serve the community, and thousands of high-paying local and union jobs.”…

They would have to build a road to datacenter, datacenters themselves, all GPUs etc put together. That requires "thousands of high-paying local and union jobs" for short time. "hundreds of millions of dollars in infrastructure". Then a dozen of armed guards with dogs.

Re: Residents cheer as Tucson rejects data center campus

#27

Post by AnthonyMouse »

hooverd wrote: post #5
bob1029 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the most cursed aspect in all of this is the fact that regions where evaporative coolers work best tend to have the scarcest water resources. Evaporative cooling is unreasonably effective when water is happy to evaporate. You can cut the power consumption of a datacenter by 70-80% in these regions if you are willing to sacrifice water. I think in this case, solar energy is the best way to run the cooling syst…

If you're doing large scale evap cooling in the Sonoran you're just removing water from an already stressed water table. I'd say put them somewhere cold and do district heating during the winter.

Does district heating actually work for heat from data centers? The exhaust temperature of computer equipment is only slightly above room temperature and the structures in need of heat would only be at slightly below room temperature when calling for heat. Heat distribution systems with tiny differentials like that tend to have poor efficiency, i.e. you're going to have consume a lot of energy on fans/pumps.

Meanwhile in a cold climate you can do cooling by just blowing outside air through a filter, so the alternative in those climates is that rather than running a compressor.

Re: Residents cheer as Tucson rejects data center campus

#28

Post by philipwhiuk »

polski-g wrote: post #19
time_is_scary wrote: post #6

> Update: Brendan Gallagher, Beale's SVP of development, said in a statement: “We are disappointed in the decision not to pursue this opportunity for Tucson. [...] We see it as a missed opportunity for the city, as this project potentially represents tens of millions of dollars in tax revenue, hundreds of millions of dollars in infrastructure to serve the community, and thousands of high-paying local and union jobs.”…

Datacenters do not employ thousands of jobs. They employ about 5.

Long term yes. Short term thousands.

Re: Residents cheer as Tucson rejects data center campus

#29

Post by JumpCrisscross »

EA-3167 wrote: post #24
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Food that people and livestock eat is less valuable than data centers This is objectively false, particularly when we consider that much of that food and water are exported. It’s also irrelevant in Tucson, which doesn’t have Central Valley syndrome.

You... do understand that it isn't exported to be incinerated, it's exported in return for money, and then people and livestock in other countries eat that food . The fact that there's a transaction in the middle of the process doesn't change the value proposition, just like the absurd overvaluation of all things AI doesn't change the value proposition there either.

> it's exported in return for money

Which is also paid for data centre access.

We need food production as a matter of survival. That doesn’t mean all food production is inherently more valuable than everything else. We let most food spoil without being eaten because it’s more efficient to do that than treat every calorie as precious.

> just like the absurd overvaluation of all things AI doesn't change the value proposition there either

Literally does.

There are good arguments against a data centre in Tucson. “We could grow food with that water” isn’t one of them.

Re: Residents cheer as Tucson rejects data center campus

#30

Post by Mtinie »

ofcrpls wrote: post #16

Visited NOVA recently and after Loudon let them pass under the radar(right by use) for as long as they have, they've recently to tried to put the kibosh on it, or at least slow it down. https://virginiabusiness.com/loudoun-county-supervisors-shak... What was once a rural county outside of Fairfax, Loudon has seen tremendous development thanks to data center expansion. Now Prince William County( one county over, westw…

I’ve lived in Loudoun County for twenty-four years, so I’ve seen much of the development firsthand. The data center expansion, particularly in Ashburn and Sterling, has been amazing to watch.

However, I’m puzzled by this portion of your comment: ‘…has seen tremendous development thanks to data center expansion.’

The major residential growth in Ashburn, Broadlands, Sterling, Lansdowne, and surrounding areas significantly predates the data center boom. These communities were already experiencing rapid expansion and large influxes of new residents well before the data center industry took off here.

Post reply on HN