ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models • Hacker News Board

Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models

#21

Post by 4ad » Sat, Aug 02, 2025, 5:18 PM UTC

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #20

ginko wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one asked for a 16:9 thinkpad though.

16:9 displays were inevitable due to the economies of scale form the TV industry. It's a shame they had to be 1366x768 for so long. I remember many eons ago in the last 2000s to early 2010s when I wanted a 16:10 monitor for my PC and the price difference between 1920x1080 and 1920x1200 or between 2560x1440 and 2560x1600 was massive, that it made no sense to get the few extra vertical pixels of the 16:10 unless you we…

I call BS on that, as Macbooks somehow always kept being 16:10. In fact you could easily buy 16:10 panels, I know because for many years I upgraded old 16:10 Thinkpads with modern displays.

Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models

#22

Post by FirmwareBurner » Sat, Aug 02, 2025, 5:20 PM UTC

4ad wrote: post #21

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

16:9 displays were inevitable due to the economies of scale form the TV industry. It's a shame they had to be 1366x768 for so long. I remember many eons ago in the last 2000s to early 2010s when I wanted a 16:10 monitor for my PC and the price difference between 1920x1080 and 1920x1200 or between 2560x1440 and 2560x1600 was massive, that it made no sense to get the few extra vertical pixels of the 16:10 unless you we…

I call BS on that, as Macbooks somehow always kept being 16:10. In fact you could easily buy 16:10 panels, I know because for many years I upgraded old 16:10 Thinkpads with modern displays.

Nothing what I said is BS, the price differences on external 16:10 monitors were significantly more expensive than 16:9 ones. Look it up.

> old 16:10 Thinkpads with modern displays.

Yes you're talking about the really old 16:10 ones from the mid to late 2000s, right before they switched to 16:9 cause they were cheaper to make due to the HD TV era. Add then today they switched back to 16:10.

So no, it's no BS that scale allows for much cheaper products, but Apple could stick to 16:10 since they never catered to cheap and it would probably cost them more in SW dev and tooling to reengineer their OS GUI and chassis for 16:9 than to keep the production lines as is since their product line back then had like 3 laptops total.

And maybe start with good faith before screaming BS. No need to be rude just because people have different opinions and experiences than you.

Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models

#23

Post by tonydav » Sat, Aug 02, 2025, 5:21 PM UTC

I can't have a laptop without the trackpoint. But why can't my fulloption P16 gen2 have a working suspend sleep S3?

It's a furnace in my backpack.

Also why lose the RJ45?

Sadly there is no better laptop.. - ecc - trackpoint +3buttons, could be without touchpad - camera shutter privacy - smartcard reader - 2 nvme (<3 NixOS

Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models

#24

Post by wpm » Sat, Aug 02, 2025, 5:22 PM UTC

mananaysiempre wrote: post #2

> "It's very difficult to make a seven-row keyboard anymore because of the aspect ratio of the display and the whole arrangement of the pieces on the inside," he said. "It's a decision that was not made lightly, however. I still like the seven-row keyboard and, as aspect ratios change, and they continue to change, I don't know. Maybe someday somebody will be interested in it again." The sad part is, the Framework 13…

The Framework keyboard is precisely why I haven’t bought one. The mixed height arrow key thing sucked on the touchbar MacBook Pros, they suck on FWs too. The second the 13 gets a normal inverted T, I buy one.

In the meantime, I’m waiting on a display converter board to show up from China so I can install a modernish 1440p display in my T420.

Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models

#25

Post by dehrmann » Sat, Aug 02, 2025, 5:24 PM UTC

A general takeaway from this is that there were a number of innovations that made sense at the time, but as the landscape changed, they lost their utility. The butterfly keyboard wasn't needed once screens got larger. The switch to widescreen mean the 7th row of keys competed with the trackpad for real estate. The lid latch was no longer needed as screens got lighter. Top-of-screen keyboard lighting got replaced by backlighting.

Don't get married to once-smart ideas that no longer make sense.

Also surprised there was no mention of docking HDD heads when the in-device accelerometer (I think this even predates the Wii and iPhone) detects a drop or the keyboard that had drain holes that bypass the much more expensive motherboard, protecting it from spills.

And I'm glad there was no mention of the adaptive keyboard (touchscreen F keys) that Apple also tried and failed at making a thing.

Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models

#26

Post by rs186 » Sat, Aug 02, 2025, 5:27 PM UTC

Interesting that we have tons of interviews, podcasts and books about how Apple design their hardware and software, but barely anything when it comes to other PCs or OSes. I have read some books and they are disappointing.

Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models

#27

Post by dehrmann » Sat, Aug 02, 2025, 5:29 PM UTC

> There was a giant scare that this Chinese company was going to destroy ThinkPad

It's been long enough to say that Lenovo really did right by the Thinkpad name. I recently switched from an X1 Carbon to a Macbook Pro because of Windows issues, and I miss the Thinkpad is built and feels. The case isn't as sharp, I prefer the trackpoint, plastic is weirdly more durable because it can flex, and all the parts are replaceable.

Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models

#28

Post by rs186 » Sat, Aug 02, 2025, 5:29 PM UTC

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #22

4ad wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call BS on that, as Macbooks somehow always kept being 16:10. In fact you could easily buy 16:10 panels, I know because for many years I upgraded old 16:10 Thinkpads with modern displays.

Nothing what I said is BS, the price differences on external 16:10 monitors were significantly more expensive than 16:9 ones. Look it up. > old 16:10 Thinkpads with modern displays. Yes you're talking about the really old 16:10 ones from the mid to late 2000s, right before they switched to 16:9 cause they were cheaper to make due to the HD TV era. Add then today they switched back to 16:10. So no, it's no BS that sca…

And worth mentioning that Apple, unlike most PC manufacturers, don't have 100 different models, with 20 different configurations of each model lying around. Their 13" laptop has always had the same 2560x1600 resolution (until recently).

Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models

#29

Post by mananaysiempre » Sat, Aug 02, 2025, 5:35 PM UTC

wpm wrote: post #24

mananaysiempre wrote: post #2

> "It's very difficult to make a seven-row keyboard anymore because of the aspect ratio of the display and the whole arrangement of the pieces on the inside," he said. "It's a decision that was not made lightly, however. I still like the seven-row keyboard and, as aspect ratios change, and they continue to change, I don't know. Maybe someday somebody will be interested in it again." The sad part is, the Framework 13…

The Framework keyboard is precisely why I haven’t bought one. The mixed height arrow key thing sucked on the touchbar MacBook Pros, they suck on FWs too. The second the 13 gets a normal inverted T, I buy one. In the meantime, I’m waiting on a display converter board to show up from China so I can install a modernish 1440p display in my T420.

The “normal” inverted T is just another variation of the same suckage as far as I’m concerned (slightly worse, if anything, because I tend to wear away the paint—and eventually plastic—on a tiny left-arrow key faster than on a normal one). Look at the photos in TFA[1] for how good arrow keys are arranged.

[1] e.g. https://regmedia.co.uk/2025/07/30/hill7.jpg (the presence of a Break key almost makes me cry)

Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models

#30

Post by ktallett » Sat, Aug 02, 2025, 5:48 PM UTC

dehrmann wrote: post #25

A general takeaway from this is that there were a number of innovations that made sense at the time, but as the landscape changed, they lost their utility. The butterfly keyboard wasn't needed once screens got larger. The switch to widescreen mean the 7th row of keys competed with the trackpad for real estate. The lid latch was no longer needed as screens got lighter. Top-of-screen keyboard lighting got replaced by b…

I question why the butterfly keyboard wouldn't be needed once screens were larger. I use a MNT Reform and a mechanical keyboard is still vastly superior.