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Ubuntu tries to make publication easier for app developers

wiki.ubuntu.com

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Re: Ubuntu tries to make publication easier for app developers

#21

Post by mekoka »

fesja wrote: post #4
JoshTriplett wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone should explain why Linux has been the latest of the big operative systems to have a user-friendly app store, when they were the first to have one with apt-get!! I think you answered your own question. Package management (together with distribution policies to make those packages work together) has solved this problem for Linux already, for all software packageable by distributions, which includes pretty muc…

From my days in Ubuntu... I remember that when I was installing some programs, it was asking me for dependencies. That's not user friendly. The App Store is user-friendly. Do you want that program? Download it! No worries of dependencies. So it doesn't matter if it's proprietary or not. It's a matter of user experience and wanting to make it easy for non-techies. They have improved a lot but it's sad they weren't the…

I've been using it for 5 years. When I install a program via apt-get, it does ask for my permission to install certain dependencies. At which point I just have to say yes or no and it will proceed or abort. I don't see how that's a problem.

Re: Ubuntu tries to make publication easier for app developers

#22

Post by Evbn »

gcr wrote: post #16
tylermenezes wrote: post #10

Their idea of making it better is to require review before the developer is even allowed to upload a build for testing ? I can't think of any other app store which requires this sort of thing; it doesn't actually solve any problem. Malicious users can claim to be whoever they want, and I can't imagine unauthorized package ports are a serious problem. If you're trying to make something simple, remove really stupid ste…

What pre-upload review are you talking about? I read through the steps, and I don't see anything other than the web form to generate an AppArmor policy, which seems completely automated. EDIT: You're probably talking about the "APPLYING FOR ACCESS" section: To ensure that we are giving upload access only to the original author or a proper representative of the upstream project, we will require that person to request…

All open source projects have a list of committers and a maintainer or few. Ubuntu's system respects that. Do you want me uploading a "new version" of something you wrote? Who am I? I am some evil hacker.

Re: Ubuntu tries to make publication easier for app developers

#23

Post by bad_user »

fesja wrote: post #4
JoshTriplett wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone should explain why Linux has been the latest of the big operative systems to have a user-friendly app store, when they were the first to have one with apt-get!! I think you answered your own question. Package management (together with distribution policies to make those packages work together) has solved this problem for Linux already, for all software packageable by distributions, which includes pretty muc…

From my days in Ubuntu... I remember that when I was installing some programs, it was asking me for dependencies. That's not user friendly. The App Store is user-friendly. Do you want that program? Download it! No worries of dependencies. So it doesn't matter if it's proprietary or not. It's a matter of user experience and wanting to make it easy for non-techies. They have improved a lot but it's sad they weren't the…

On Ubuntu to install a third-party app, like Chrome or Skype, you just double-click the dpk, a wizard pops up, you click Install, and all dependencies are taken care of.

The process is much better than on OSX. Think about how no app installs Growl automatically.

Re: Ubuntu tries to make publication easier for app developers

#24

Post by joneil »

gcr wrote: post #14
glesica wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Longtime Ubuntu user here, I have no idea what you're talking about... Desktop Linux has plenty of problems, no need to invent new ones to complain about. Unless you were installing programs manually you shouldn't need to worry at all about dependencies on Ubuntu (or Debian).

How else does one install programs other than manually? You can't magically wish for Chrome to appear on ubuntu, you have to either use Synaptic, apt-get, or the software center (on recent ubuntii). All of these at least prompt you about dependencies.

Ubuntu Software Center doesn't prompt about dependencies... it just goes ahead and installs them. At least that's the default behaviour on 12.04 on my two machines.

Re: Ubuntu tries to make publication easier for app developers

#25

Post by dplanella »

gcr wrote: post #11

Guys, as the huge yellow warning at the top of the page shows, this is a draft work-in-progress specification. If you don't like it, now is the time to speak up. Jono Bacon (jono AT ubuntu DOT com) is the coordinator. EDIT: Where's the appropriate place to send feedback? Perhaps not to his inbox

There is a Feedback session at the end of the spec. You can leave your input and questions there, or you can alternatively continue the discussion on the thread at the ubuntu-devel mailing list. Thanks!

Re: Ubuntu tries to make publication easier for app developers

#26

Post by keithpeter »

takluyver wrote: post #19
gcr wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How else does one install programs other than manually? You can't magically wish for Chrome to appear on ubuntu, you have to either use Synaptic, apt-get, or the software center (on recent ubuntii). All of these at least prompt you about dependencies.

'Manually' probably means not using a package manager - either with the configure/make dance, or with a binary installer like Google Earth used for a long time. In those cases, you still need to sort out dependencies manually.

Yup

   apt-get install
will bring down all the dependencies needed. That's the reason they package stuff against release numbers, so the dependencies are all consistent.

    dpkg -i
may give dependency errors.

Re: Ubuntu tries to make publication easier for app developers

#27

Post by andyking »

keithpeter wrote: post #26
takluyver wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Manually' probably means not using a package manager - either with the configure/make dance, or with a binary installer like Google Earth used for a long time. In those cases, you still need to sort out dependencies manually.

Yup apt-get install will bring down all the dependencies needed. That's the reason they package stuff against release numbers, so the dependencies are all consistent. dpkg -i may give dependency errors.

I get dependency errors on Chrome under Ubuntu 12.04, when I do a dpkg -i google-chrome-stable-whatever.deb.

But a quick apt-get -f install after I get those errors sorts it out.

Re: Ubuntu tries to make publication easier for app developers

#28

Post by dplanella »

gcr wrote: post #16
tylermenezes wrote: post #10

Their idea of making it better is to require review before the developer is even allowed to upload a build for testing ? I can't think of any other app store which requires this sort of thing; it doesn't actually solve any problem. Malicious users can claim to be whoever they want, and I can't imagine unauthorized package ports are a serious problem. If you're trying to make something simple, remove really stupid ste…

What pre-upload review are you talking about? I read through the steps, and I don't see anything other than the web form to generate an AppArmor policy, which seems completely automated. EDIT: You're probably talking about the "APPLYING FOR ACCESS" section: To ensure that we are giving upload access only to the original author or a proper representative of the upstream project, we will require that person to request…

Note that it's more like the concept of a 'team' or 'project' rather than a single owner. Anyone endorsed by the team who creates the app (where a team can be a single person) can upload new versions.

Re: Ubuntu tries to make publication easier for app developers

#29

Post by dplanella »

agilord wrote: post #17
fesja wrote: post #2

Someone should explain why Linux has been the latest of the big operative systems to have a user-friendly app store, when they were the first to have one with apt-get!! It's a pity, Linux on desktop could have gone way further on market share and popularity. Now, they are doing just a copy (wait for Apple to demand).

App store is all of the following: distribution, discovery and promotion. apt-get was really a distribution platform at first, and you could use it for discovery as well. Apple's store is full of promotion, and I haven't seen any Linux solution that even tries to fill that (marketing) gap.

Then you should check out http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/features/ubuntu-software-centre :)

Re: Ubuntu tries to make publication easier for app developers

#30

Post by keithpeter »

andyking wrote: post #27
keithpeter wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup apt-get install will bring down all the dependencies needed. That's the reason they package stuff against release numbers, so the dependencies are all consistent. dpkg -i may give dependency errors.

I get dependency errors on Chrome under Ubuntu 12.04, when I do a dpkg -i google-chrome-stable-whatever.deb. But a quick apt-get -f install after I get those errors sorts it out.

Absolutely; if the dependencies exist within the appropriate Ubuntu repositories, or the ppas you have active, then the needed libraries can be installed.

Random downloading of debs from Web sites could lead to a situation where a different version of a dependency is needed. "foo needs libnaff-ubuntu345 but libnaff-ubuntu345 is not going to be installed" type errors result.

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