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Dwl: Dwm for Wayland

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Re: Dwl: Dwm for Wayland

#21

Post by asveikau »

fruitworks wrote: post #13
dodomodo wrote: post #8

[flagged]

At some point of development, the only way to progress without spiraling complexity is to break backwards compatibility. You might be interested in studying the internals of X11 and wayland to learn more. In a commercial project like windows, this sort of project is a total no-go. However in a collaborative community project like linux userspace, developers have more freedom to make design decisions in spite of short…

People do large rewrites that subtly break expectations and need to slowly add back features to get parity with the old thing at Microsoft all the time. Source: I worked there at the end of the 2000s.

Sometimes it's very visible, like they are pushing a new UI framework. Other times it's under the hood, like they changed how a lot of GDI works.

Re: Dwl: Dwm for Wayland

#22

Post by hodgehog11 »

temp0826 wrote: post #18
dodomodo wrote: post #8

[flagged]

Wayland has been around for 15+ years now and I've been using it daily for probably 10. At this point I have to assume comments like this are unserious.

Good for you. Meanwhile, many other people have been encountering _serious_ issues for much of those 10 years. This is well documented. Downplaying the issues of other users is a great way to make people dislike the product.

Re: Dwl: Dwm for Wayland

#23

Post by yyyk »

dodomodo wrote: post #8

[flagged]

X withering away was inevitable once you consider the 'economic' situation - very few people worked on it once the commercial Unix vendors went down. There was little practical enthusiasm for a common layer. Even before Wayland, its role was reduced more and more. Wayland is natural evolution of this where most of the work is offloaded to more resourced Desktop environments and the org mostly sets standards.

Re: Dwl: Dwm for Wayland

#24

Post by kelvinjps10 »

mort96 wrote: post #5
cnity wrote: post #2

I wonder if it was considered to submit this as a dwm patch instead.

An X window manager and a Wayland compositor are so radically different beasts that it would probably require a monumental refactor of DWM to make it capable of having an X back-end and a wlroots back-end. Probably easier to just re-create DWM's interface on top of wlroots, like what Sway did with i3. Also, DWM has an explicit goal of being minimal and to not grow too big. There's no way in hell that Suckless would a…

Why did you get downvoted?

Re: Dwl: Dwm for Wayland

#25

Post by slackfan »

yyyk wrote: post #23
dodomodo wrote: post #8

[flagged]

X withering away was inevitable once you consider the 'economic' situation - very few people worked on it once the commercial Unix vendors went down. There was little practical enthusiasm for a common layer. Even before Wayland, its role was reduced more and more. Wayland is natural evolution of this where most of the work is offloaded to more resourced Desktop environments and the org mostly sets standards.

X wasn't withering away, it was pointedly being poisoned.

Re: Dwl: Dwm for Wayland

#26

Post by dodomodo »

temp0826 wrote: post #18
dodomodo wrote: post #8

[flagged]

Wayland has been around for 15+ years now and I've been using it daily for probably 10. At this point I have to assume comments like this are unserious.

You have to understand that I don't really care about the internals of my DE. The same of true for 95% of Linux users and 99.999% of general computer users, so when I see a huge amount of effort goes into basically seemingly pointless refactoring, instead of tackling issues that are actually important to users, it is disappointing to me. I just installed KDE Manjaro and guess what? It stills uses X, and no one has an answer to what benefit Wayland has for me.

Re: Dwl: Dwm for Wayland

#28

Post by [deleted] »

hodgehog11 wrote: post #22
temp0826 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wayland has been around for 15+ years now and I've been using it daily for probably 10. At this point I have to assume comments like this are unserious.

Good for you. Meanwhile, many other people have been encountering _serious_ issues for much of those 10 years. This is well documented. Downplaying the issues of other users is a great way to make people dislike the product.

[deleted]

Re: Dwl: Dwm for Wayland

#29

Post by blurbleblurble »

temp0826 wrote: post #18
dodomodo wrote: post #8

[flagged]

Wayland has been around for 15+ years now and I've been using it daily for probably 10. At this point I have to assume comments like this are unserious.

It's probably a distro thing. I'm on a rolling release distro (arch) and I've been using wayland on arch and it's worked great. There are still some things I struggle with, but for ~7 years I've been using wayland without major issue. Things iron themselves out pretty quickly these days when you're using a rolling release distro. This is not so for popos/ubuntu/debian etc.

Re: Dwl: Dwm for Wayland

#30

Post by dodomodo »

fruitworks wrote: post #13
dodomodo wrote: post #8

[flagged]

At some point of development, the only way to progress without spiraling complexity is to break backwards compatibility. You might be interested in studying the internals of X11 and wayland to learn more. In a commercial project like windows, this sort of project is a total no-go. However in a collaborative community project like linux userspace, developers have more freedom to make design decisions in spite of short…

You got it backwards, once you have users, they are your "greatness", if you go to the path of self gratification, are are betraying your users. Of course some times sacrifices have to be made, but you have to understand the graveness of them. I don't like the current state of Windows, but Microsoft won't ever break such a huge portion of applications that run of Windows just for the sake of some refactoring.
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