I don't think this would work. A big part of why ChromeOS is so simple is the Google services backing it. Without the unified login, automated backups, verified app store, and hardware certification ChromeOS wouldn't be the easy to use system that it is.
Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS
21–30 of 122 posts
Re: Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS
#22There were a bunch of these during the netbook boom and they were grandparent-proof. Sadly, all of my favorites (Moblin/Meego, Joli OS and xpud) are long dead.
Netbook boom happened and then people actually started trying to use them.
That is why the netbook boom died. Because while they promised to make cheap Linux devices that anybody could use none of them actually delivered on it.
In fact the whole thing was a fiasco.
The classic Linux problem can be described as "9 clicks to shit". Meaning that a Linux desktop looks, on the initial viewing, as something that is actually usable and modern, but once you start clicking around things start going bad. Going bad quickly.
A major problem cause of the problem is "linux is about choice" mentality.
Another problem is that programmers specialize at being good at programming, but things like documentation and UI testing are their own disciplines that are separate and distinct in a lot of meaningful ways. So, in attempt to make up for this, they leave configuration and details up to user choice. It is effectively pawning off the last stages of development onto the end user, who are generally most ill-equipped to make technical decisions on software they are not familiar with.
Instead of presenting something that "just works" users are presented with a myriad of choices and options that they have to make decisions about before ever actually being able to use the software.
Having lots of choices in applications, widget libraries, desktops, ways to install software, init systems, etc etc... results in very significant complexity as it all has to work together.
And complexity breeds bugs.
So each and every user experience ends up being its own unique things. There is no "standard configuration" no "supported configuration" and no "documented configuration".
The end result is that each user is forced to find ways to make the desktop work for their specific use case. Essentially finding a magic combination of things that isn't broken for what they specifically want. The desktop will still be full of buggy behavior, but just not in the way that that particular user cares about.
This creates a extraordinary of frustration and friction when time comes to doing the things that the desktop is actually intended for... which is getting actual work done.
This isn't a problem for a certain class of highly technical users that love technical minutia and configuring things. Knowing how to carve a working system out of a OS riddled with historical artifacts and highly technical choices is a badge of honor for many people.
But this isn't how most people want to do things.
Netbook boom tried to fix this in certain ways, but all that ended up happening is that each little corporation tried to do their own thing and then abandoned it when they realized there was no money to be made and they really lacked the resources and expertise to make it work.
Re: Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
The author's point is to use an immutable or atomic system. Debian uses a traditional package manager and over time those packages can get in a weird state. Battery runs out during package update? Third party repo disappears? GPG key changes? Distribution eliminates 32-bit library support? Nvidia drivers change? Distribution deprecates Xorg? Your everyday user doesn't know how to deal with that. An A/B partition sche…
> An OSTree based atomic system is pretty close, although there is some added complexity. The author mentions this as well but there's no details there. We've been shipping chromeos-style images with universal blue for over 4 years and the ostree parts are invisible to end users. What do you feel takes away from the user experience?
Thanks for your work by the way, I'm a happy uBlue (Bazzite) user.
I think my main concern is something like a known OSTree design issue around UID/GID drift, there was a bug that was partly fixed in 2023 but the issue comes from OSTree assigning known UIDs from the deployment once created, but this may not map to the proper UID on the system the deployment is being blasted to. You can get improper ownership out of this.
Not something I've ever encountered myself, but if I were developing an embedded device it seems like one less thing to worry about.
Re: Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS
#24We just need to stop reinventing the wheel.
The tractor wheel, the race bicycle wheel or the 50000RPM flywheel?
The fact that the customer just needs a vehicle to get to and from work, but they're offered tractor wheels and 50k RPM flywheels is exactly the problem.
Stop inventing wheels, stop offering esoteric wheels and start solving customer problems simply.
Re: Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS
#25Linux desktop in general suffers from not having good "default" options. I can't really recommend any single distro, can't recommend even a single desktop environment as good for most people. Mint is very good, but it looks painfully dated in many places. Fedora is very good, but Gnome Shell is not for everyone in the slightest and debian base is just too wide-spread to ignore. Ubuntu is very good, but actually it's…
> I can't really recommend any single distro, can't recommend even a single desktop environment as good for most people. I can and do all the time: KDE Plasma + Debian Testing
My experience is that distros with traditional package management can't be counted on to work over the long term without manual administrator intervention.
Debian in particular would not be my first choice, or my second, for people who can't do their own system administration.
(And this is a bit of the problem: nobody can agree on this stuff)
Re: Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS
#26ChromeOS is genius in edging out Microsoft dominance in office software. Most interns only know how to use Google docs thanks to Chrome books.
Re: Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS
#27There are too many Linux distributions so we need to create a new one?
Re: Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS
#28> Nothing in this is really difficult.
Providing drivers for all the hardware and peripherals that all work together in all the permutations is properly hard. I’d argue it’s the root issue.
Google can test each ChromeOS release against their Chromebooks to make sure everything works. If something fails, someone in Google can root cause on a matching hardware configuration easily.
This is not feasible for a general desktop Linux distribution because there are too many permutations. If the distribution is targeted at non-technical users the matter of root causing an issue on a hardware configuration the maintenance team can’t replicate becomes intractable.
A solution might be to literally only support Google Chromebooks, to constrain the possibility space, but even that is a big undertaking if the goal is to match ChromeOS for quality.
Re: Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS
#29I think project bluefin has a similarish philosophy of being a "cloud first os", would definitely recommend checking it out: https://projectbluefin.io/ In all honesty though, there's a tonne of easy to recommend distros which don't need set up if you are a "normie" just wanting to get online: - Elementary - Mint - Ubuntu I think the real "secret sauce" for ChomeOS' success is basically big coorporate backing and bein…
I recently (two weeks ago) decided to finally switch from Windows to plain Ubuntu as a daily desktop. I'm well experienced with it from managing servers and have used it occasionally at a desktop in the past.
I've had - and continue to have, a ton of minor and a few large problems.
First, wifi. Apparently there's often problems with Intel killer 6e laptop cards, which required me to enter loads of console commands that I didn't understand to fix. I did finally fix it, but I'm not sure exactly what did it. A couple of hours work over a few days to fix this.
I work from an external monitor plugged into my laptops HDMI port with the lid closed, and it seems Ubuntu is massively confused by this. I'm constantly having to open the laptop to get a login screen to show, then logging in and closing it, then opening it again because now the desktop doesn't show.
My laptop screen resets to minimum brightness every restart.
I did a driver update and suddenly my external monitor wasn't recognized at all so I had to roll back.
And at least several hours more on other issues. Oh yes, if I suspend then try to wake, I get a black screen or occasionally the Ubuntu startup screen but can never get back to the login screen until I do a hard reset.
The Bluetooth audio was set to headset quality (mono) and the only way to fix this, following 20 minutes research, was to install a different audio settings app.
All of these things, I can fix. I don't want to, but as a technically savvy user I can do it, with enough hours put in. But there's no way I'd suggest anyone else in my family or friends to use it unless they clearly tell me that they would enjoy tinkering with their operating system.
Re: Please, FOSS world, we need something like ChromeOS
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I can't really recommend any single distro, can't recommend even a single desktop environment as good for most people. I can and do all the time: KDE Plasma + Debian Testing
My experience is that distros with traditional package management can't be counted on to work over the long term without manual administrator intervention. Debian in particular would not be my first choice, or my second, for people who can't do their own system administration. (And this is a bit of the problem: nobody can agree on this stuff)
Nobody agreeing on this stuff is freedom and beauty. If you want a managed OS there are already many options.
You look at Linux as an issue because someone you know can’t do system administration, something Debian almost requires none of. I look at Linux as an opportunity to rip people off their safe OS and introduce them to something that works but allows deep customization when they’re ready.
You’re operating out of fear, I’m operating out of faith. I really don’t care if the user “gets it”. They barely get their mobile device.