It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever • Hacker News Board

Re: It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever

#21

Post by gwern » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 6:19 PM UTC

DannoHung wrote: post #20

emmett wrote: post #3

Bezos' grandmother was dying of smoking cigarettes, and if he managed to push her into quitting it was probably worth being a little mean about it. This is the kind of "deep" sounding quote that's actually not so deep at all. It's obviously good to be kind, and good to be clever, and in fact in order to really be kind one must be at least a little clever. Check the consequences, not the surface appearance, of your ac…

This sounds like the logic of a bully who beats up on smaller kids so that they'll be "stronger" later.

A bully who carefully doesn't follow the bit about checking consequences.

(This reminds me of the old vein of criticisms of consequentalism which go: assume consequentalists are dumb; then they might do thing X with bad consequences...)

Re: It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever

#22

Post by theorique » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 6:21 PM UTC

  Narrator: Tyler, you are by far the most interesting single-serving friend I've
    ever met... see I have this thing: everything on a plane
    is single-serving...
  Tyler Durden: Oh I get it, it's very clever.
  Narrator: Thank you. 
  Tyler Durden: How's that working out for you? 
  Narrator: What? 
  Tyler Durden: Being clever. 
  Narrator: Great. 
  Tyler Durden: Keep it up then... Right up.

Re: It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever

#23

Post by molecule » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 6:22 PM UTC

it's more important to bring your grandmother soup in the hospital than to point out what she's doing that will put her in the hospital?

Re: It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever

#24

Post by dllthomas » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 6:25 PM UTC

ktizo wrote: post #7

emmett wrote: post #3

Bezos' grandmother was dying of smoking cigarettes, and if he managed to push her into quitting it was probably worth being a little mean about it. This is the kind of "deep" sounding quote that's actually not so deep at all. It's obviously good to be kind, and good to be clever, and in fact in order to really be kind one must be at least a little clever. Check the consequences, not the surface appearance, of your ac…

if he managed to push her into quitting it was probably worth being a little mean about it. Only if being mean to someone is a much more effective way of making them quit. It is just as likely to stress them out and make them smoke more. Being mean to be nice as a strategy only makes logical sense if there is no way to achieve the same thing without being mean, otherwise you are just being mean and justifying it with…

Mostly correct.

"Being mean to be nice as a strategy only makes logical sense if there is no way to achieve the same thing without being mean[.]"

Not quite. Being mean to be nice as a strategy makes logical sense if the benefits to the other person from your employing that strategy outweighs the drawbacks, as compared to alternative strategies. That it be the only option to accomplish the goal is neither necessary (if alternatives avoid being mean but have other huge drawbacks) nor sufficient (if the goal itself is not worth the damage done by being mean), though is certainly highly suggestive.

Re: It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever

#25

Post by nsmartt » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 6:28 PM UTC

acuozzo wrote: post #16

mcantelon wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It worked out pretty well for Steve Jobs.

Yeah except, well, the dying at 56 part.

Yeah, because that's related to whether or not he was a jerk.

Spoiler: It isn't.

Re: It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever

#26

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 6:28 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever

#27

Post by eli_gottlieb » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 6:34 PM UTC

There's kind, and then there's polite. I'm very kind to the people I care about. I'm barely polite to anyone.

Re: It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever

#28

Post by bluekeybox » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 6:34 PM UTC

I've read the title as "It's More Important to Be King Than Clever" and agreed wholeheartedly, then it turned out the article was about something else.

Re: It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever

#29

Post by davmar » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 6:35 PM UTC

"I'd rather be rich than stupid" -jack handey

Re: It's More Important to Be Kind Than Clever

#30

Post by eitland » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 6:46 PM UTC

dllthomas wrote: post #24

ktizo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if he managed to push her into quitting it was probably worth being a little mean about it. Only if being mean to someone is a much more effective way of making them quit. It is just as likely to stress them out and make them smoke more. Being mean to be nice as a strategy only makes logical sense if there is no way to achieve the same thing without being mean, otherwise you are just being mean and justifying it with…

Mostly correct. "Being mean to be nice as a strategy only makes logical sense if there is no way to achieve the same thing without being mean[.]" Not quite. Being mean to be nice as a strategy makes logical sense if the benefits to the other person from your employing that strategy outweighs the drawbacks, as compared to alternative strategies. That it be the only option to accomplish the goal is neither necessary (i…

Meta: Nice example in correcting someone in a nice way.