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Protecting my attention at the dopamine carnival

amirsharif.com

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Re: Protecting my attention at the dopamine carnival

#21

Post by hattmall »

mingus88 wrote: post #8
bcoates wrote: post #3

The idea of app timers seems like exactly the weird self-negotiation alcoholics do around booze where they think mimicking the habits of casual drinkers (on what is, to the casual, a bender) will make them not an alcoholic anymore. Yes, normies might have three margaritas on a Tuesday. Like, once a quarter. Not every single day, and also not followed by a whole lot more once you’re loosened up. Likewise, the reaction…

I get what you are saying but it’s 2025 and a mobile device is basically required to operate in society today. Especially if you want an active social life or to excel at work. Nobody needs a margarita or any other addictive substance to function in society (barring actual substances issues). So it’s a false equivalence to compare apps like this. An example in my middle aged life is that my kids extra-curriculars are…

Well he didn't say the phone, but the app. So instead of using app timers just delete the app. The point is that you find yourself having a problem with the app and regret it's usage later then an app timer is the same as an alcoholic having one drink, now if you are judicious with the app timer and really do it ok. Same for an alcoholic, if you can actually have one drink, then it's fine.

Some apps are addictive but have some reasonable informational value. Some are just straight key bumps of entertainment with an algorithmic comedown to keep you looking for the next baggie.

I have the same situation you do about Facebook, but still don't have the app on my phone. I just check the mobile site and I was forced to install messenger. I have no need or desire to install things like TikTok or Instagram, of the hundreds of times people have sent me links to things on those apps I've never come away with the feeling that it was a value add.

Re: Protecting my attention at the dopamine carnival

#22

Post by parpfish »

milofeynman wrote: post #12
androng wrote: post #5

I invested in META stock because I have an addiction to instagram and the tracking is so good that the ads are actually tailored to me and my desires so my CTR is i think 7% on average. contrast with YouTube and Google and Twitter where I block all the ads because the CTR is 0.00% because they are all garbage. Instagram keeps showing me ads for expensive stuff I don't need but I do want, like meal kits and fancy clot…

I've found the same. I actually enjoy Instagram ads. I despise almost every other ad I can think of.

You enjoy the ads, but do you enjoy the products?

I’ve seen so many ads that show a nice product, so I click and it takes me to nice polished landing page, which leads to a smooth checkout flow. But then the thing arrives and it’s garbage. I believe that there’s an entire genre of niche-marketed consumer goods that have been broken by Campbell/Goodharts law because they’ve integrated the product design and marketing so tightly that the product is designed to optimize CTR and funnel conversions rather than being a good at being the thing that it is.

Re: Protecting my attention at the dopamine carnival

#23

Post by padolsey »

> Using ChatGPT on cognitive tasks can reduce your brain connectivity by up to 50% and reduce your ability to recall information about the task by 8x.

Argh people keep referencing this study as Gospel. It has not been peer-reviewed. Its methodology has a number of concerning confounders. It's a tiny sample with a narrow contrived task domain. And the very premise of the study is misframed. The implication that 'brain activity' is a positive outcome does not follow. Brain connectivity might be analagous to inefficiency as opposed to the reported 'engagement' or 'cognitive debt'.

Re: Protecting my attention at the dopamine carnival

#24

Post by hattmall »

jimbob45 wrote: post #2

I can’t abide by that last claim. AI has been able to fetch some dead Microsoft documentation for me that I was not able to otherwise find through the regular channels. The code would have had to have looked very differently if not for AI.

Internet archive is pretty good for old documentation. It's very interesting what API features that are removed from new versions and all documentation scrubbed but actually still work.

Re: Protecting my attention at the dopamine carnival

#25

Post by _9ptr »

pipsterwo wrote: post #6
bcoates wrote: post #3

The idea of app timers seems like exactly the weird self-negotiation alcoholics do around booze where they think mimicking the habits of casual drinkers (on what is, to the casual, a bender) will make them not an alcoholic anymore. Yes, normies might have three margaritas on a Tuesday. Like, once a quarter. Not every single day, and also not followed by a whole lot more once you’re loosened up. Likewise, the reaction…

I find them really useful, I find youtube to be a good thing in moderation. But its very helpful to have a timer forcing me to thoughtfully use the time I've allocated.

The "UnTrap"-Add-On for Firefox can block the more detrimental aspects of youtube, like shorts or the recommendation of other videos. I have it configured so that it always brings me directly to the "watch later"-playlist and I never go to the main page.

Re: Protecting my attention at the dopamine carnival

#26

Post by ch4s3 »

padolsey wrote: post #23

> Using ChatGPT on cognitive tasks can reduce your brain connectivity by up to 50% and reduce your ability to recall information about the task by 8x. Argh people keep referencing this study as Gospel. It has not been peer-reviewed. Its methodology has a number of concerning confounders. It's a tiny sample with a narrow contrived task domain. And the very premise of the study is misframed. The implication that 'brain…

Im never surprised when someone prattling on about dopamine also leans on a bad study to make a spurious point.

Re: Protecting my attention at the dopamine carnival

#27

Post by parpfish »

candiddevmike wrote: post #13
bcoates wrote: post #3

The idea of app timers seems like exactly the weird self-negotiation alcoholics do around booze where they think mimicking the habits of casual drinkers (on what is, to the casual, a bender) will make them not an alcoholic anymore. Yes, normies might have three margaritas on a Tuesday. Like, once a quarter. Not every single day, and also not followed by a whole lot more once you’re loosened up. Likewise, the reaction…

I wish Chrome had timers for specific websites on mobile. I hate the all-or-nothing Chrome timer, it's ridiculous and so counter intuitive.

I’d also like more control over chrome autocomplete.

Most of the time that I get sucked into a website, it’s because autocomplete and muscle memory got me there without thinking. Every once in a while I’ll clean out my history cache and for a week or so I’ll find myself on the page of google search results for “re” or “fa”

Re: Protecting my attention at the dopamine carnival

#28

Post by _9ptr »

hattmall wrote: post #21
mingus88 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you are saying but it’s 2025 and a mobile device is basically required to operate in society today. Especially if you want an active social life or to excel at work. Nobody needs a margarita or any other addictive substance to function in society (barring actual substances issues). So it’s a false equivalence to compare apps like this. An example in my middle aged life is that my kids extra-curriculars are…

Well he didn't say the phone, but the app. So instead of using app timers just delete the app. The point is that you find yourself having a problem with the app and regret it's usage later then an app timer is the same as an alcoholic having one drink, now if you are judicious with the app timer and really do it ok. Same for an alcoholic, if you can actually have one drink, then it's fine. Some apps are addictive but…

It's a good idea to just uninstall some of these apps or even accounts and see if you really miss them. I found that not to be the case with Twitter and Facebook.

Re: Protecting my attention at the dopamine carnival

#29

Post by ch4s3 »

parpfish wrote: post #22
milofeynman wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found the same. I actually enjoy Instagram ads. I despise almost every other ad I can think of.

You enjoy the ads, but do you enjoy the products ? I’ve seen so many ads that show a nice product, so I click and it takes me to nice polished landing page, which leads to a smooth checkout flow. But then the thing arrives and it’s garbage. I believe that there’s an entire genre of niche-marketed consumer goods that have been broken by Campbell/Goodharts law because they’ve integrated the product design and marketing…

The joke is that Instagram is QVC for millennials, it must be working on/for some people.

Re: Protecting my attention at the dopamine carnival

#30

Post by spondylosaurus »

parpfish wrote: post #22
milofeynman wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found the same. I actually enjoy Instagram ads. I despise almost every other ad I can think of.

You enjoy the ads, but do you enjoy the products ? I’ve seen so many ads that show a nice product, so I click and it takes me to nice polished landing page, which leads to a smooth checkout flow. But then the thing arrives and it’s garbage. I believe that there’s an entire genre of niche-marketed consumer goods that have been broken by Campbell/Goodharts law because they’ve integrated the product design and marketing…

There's a particular Instagram ad my wife always sees for a graphic tee with a design that we both love, but the vendor selling it is (according to Reddit reviews) garbage. The infuriating thing is that no one else seems to sell a shirt with that particular design!
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