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Reading Neuromancer for the first time in 2025

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Re: Reading Neuromancer for the first time in 2025

#21

Post by MomsAVoxell »

keiferski wrote: post #8
amarcheschi wrote: post #2

If you're interested in reading about cyberpunk and why today it feels "dated" - or at least to me, how it didn't manage to reinvent itself and remains crystallized in time -, there's a wonderful article here: https://forums.insertcredit.com/t/what-was-cyberpunk-in-memo... Be advised it's quite long

Cyberpunk was essentially a sub-type of counterculture, and counterculture itself has pretty much been dead for a couple decades now. When the hackers are primarily interested in VC funds, the cryptocurrency ethos overtaken by the finance industry, and the goal of every artist to “make it” as a creator, there’s basically no room for culture that explicitly wants to operate outside the system. You could probably tie t…

Counterculture moved underground.

Cyberpunk as a sub-type: well, science fiction was for decades bound to get there, eventually. The Stainless Steel Rat would like to have a word about it…

Re: Reading Neuromancer for the first time in 2025

#22

Post by xg15 »

> People tend to vastly overestimate what will happen in 50 years and massively underestimate what will happen in the next two.

I like that we now also have "Amara's Law" [1] that makes the exact opposite point:

> We tend to overestimate the effect of a technology in the short run and underestimate the effect in the long run.

So either that "futurist" was an idiot, or this shows that with respect to future developments, really no one has any idea what they are talking about.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Amara

Re: Reading Neuromancer for the first time in 2025

#23

Post by cubefox »

elcapitan wrote: post #3

Related: Is there some place that collects the predictions, ideas, concepts from Scifi stories, without all the plot and character stuff? Every time I try to read Scifi because I heard about some interesting parts, I have the feeling there's a 1 page thesis about the future and technology trying to escape, but buried under some mildly interesting generic storyline and tons of made up terminology and worldbuilding.

> Related: Is there some place that collects the predictions, ideas, concepts from Scifi stories

For concepts yes:

http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/ctnlistalpha.asp

Re: Reading Neuromancer for the first time in 2025

#24

Post by amarcheschi »

keiferski wrote: post #8
amarcheschi wrote: post #2

If you're interested in reading about cyberpunk and why today it feels "dated" - or at least to me, how it didn't manage to reinvent itself and remains crystallized in time -, there's a wonderful article here: https://forums.insertcredit.com/t/what-was-cyberpunk-in-memo... Be advised it's quite long

Cyberpunk was essentially a sub-type of counterculture, and counterculture itself has pretty much been dead for a couple decades now. When the hackers are primarily interested in VC funds, the cryptocurrency ethos overtaken by the finance industry, and the goal of every artist to “make it” as a creator, there’s basically no room for culture that explicitly wants to operate outside the system. You could probably tie t…

I partially disagree, there are still some cyberpunk medias that feel fresh for today. But yes, they're definitely not as famous as the previous ones.

Mirror's edge (catalyst or not) comes to mind immediately, that game feels like is set in an apple store. It essentially is a modern cyberpunk setting, which apparently is called post cyberpunk.

Another title coming to my mind is cloud punk. That games has a very "old style" cyberpunk esthetic - rain, cloud, whatever trope you name it, there is -, but it is still kept quite fresh by the style with which the plot is written, the characters, and the situation happening.

I would like to say more titles, but I don't know any

Re: Reading Neuromancer for the first time in 2025

#25

Post by amarcheschi »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #5
amarcheschi wrote: post #2

If you're interested in reading about cyberpunk and why today it feels "dated" - or at least to me, how it didn't manage to reinvent itself and remains crystallized in time -, there's a wonderful article here: https://forums.insertcredit.com/t/what-was-cyberpunk-in-memo... Be advised it's quite long

Is that your article? I'm afraid I think that it badly misses the mark. Literary cyberpunk is simple; it is nothing more or less than near-future crime fiction where technology (usually speculative) is central to the plot. That's the common thread; writing style, setting characteristics, etc., are diverse. Now I know that some people are going to say, "but what of social structures and evil corporations?!" Look no fu…

It's not my article and I don't 100% agree with it. But I think it's interesting to read. I think the article spends some time making your points about the esthetic over the contents

Re: Reading Neuromancer for the first time in 2025

#27

Post by makaking »

I got Neuromancer as a birthday gift earlier this year. I found it simultaneously very captivating but requiring a lot of effort to read through the dense terminology and try to accurately form a picture of what Gibson was trying to convey. Sadly I couldn't finish it since its the type of book that, if you stop reading for a week or longer, you'll have to start from the beginning.

This post gave me more appreciation of Gibson's impact and a boost to pick it up somewhen later in the year.

Re: Reading Neuromancer for the first time in 2025

#28

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

xg15 wrote: post #22

> People tend to vastly overestimate what will happen in 50 years and massively underestimate what will happen in the next two. I like that we now also have "Amara's Law" [1] that makes the exact opposite point: > We tend to overestimate the effect of a technology in the short run and underestimate the effect in the long run. So either that "futurist" was an idiot, or this shows that with respect to future developmen…

I think there's a slight difference. Amara's law is about "a technology" - just one - and its initial impact vs second-order effects.

e.g. Twitter started out as a micro-blogging platform, and it had impact in that area. But the real impact on people of this kind of fast social media came about from it's longer term use in shaping public discourse, and how that role is weaponised.

See also the saying "We Shape Our Tools, and Thereafter Our Tools Shape Us"

As for the other quote, I don't know if it's true that "we massively underestimate what will happen in the next two years" but it seems to be a statement about the volume of change, the number of new things, rather than the continued impact of one.

Re: Reading Neuromancer for the first time in 2025

#29

Post by Klonoar »

anupj wrote: post #4

The most fascinating detail here is that every piece of tech in Neuromancer is Japanese or German. Hitachi computers, Sanyo suits, Braun drones. Gibson was extrapolating from 1984 when Japan dominated consumer electronics and Germany led manufacturing. Fast forward 40 years and we're having the exact same conversations about Chinese tech dominance. TikTok, DJI drones, BYD cars. Today's "future tech" assumptions mirro…

The more time moves along, the more impressed I am by his call in “Pattern Recognition” than “Neuromancer”.

The latter is still one of my favorite books of all time, though.

Re: Reading Neuromancer for the first time in 2025

#30

Post by elcapitan »

cubefox wrote: post #23
elcapitan wrote: post #3

Related: Is there some place that collects the predictions, ideas, concepts from Scifi stories, without all the plot and character stuff? Every time I try to read Scifi because I heard about some interesting parts, I have the feeling there's a 1 page thesis about the future and technology trying to escape, but buried under some mildly interesting generic storyline and tons of made up terminology and worldbuilding.

> Related: Is there some place that collects the predictions, ideas, concepts from Scifi stories For concepts yes: http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/ctnlistalpha.asp

This is really great, thanks! Looks like it's also possible to group them by book, e.g. http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/AuthorSpecAlphaList.asp?BkNum=...
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