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Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

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Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#21

Post by treyd »

rvnx wrote: post #18
api wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but I'm also not convinced that a ten year old being able to be face to face with hard-core BDSM and incest fetish porn within 40 seconds of opening a web browser is healthy. I don't like this but don't have another solution other than the porn industry self-policing which isn't promising.

Now take an intentionally extreme opposite (as a thought experiment): if we put death penalty to people who participate in distributing or in relaying such content, could all of that be solved without the “internet pass” and IDing your internet history ?

Maybe, but even this is broken with the internet being international. You'd need a system much more advanced than even the GFW.

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#22

Post by treyd »

k__ wrote: post #9
EGreg wrote: post #5

[flagged]

Web3 is just crypto brought to it's logical conclusion. That doesn't mean that part of the tech can't be used in traditional IT.

Web3 specifically is trying to repeat the dot-com bubble by using the same technology and content delivery system that it used and which led to the runaway adoption, but in a setting where it makes it too easy to separate people from their money.

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#23

Post by rvnx »

treyd wrote: post #21
rvnx wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now take an intentionally extreme opposite (as a thought experiment): if we put death penalty to people who participate in distributing or in relaying such content, could all of that be solved without the “internet pass” and IDing your internet history ?

Maybe, but even this is broken with the internet being international. You'd need a system much more advanced than even the GFW.

Somehow this work when dealing with pedophile content, so the tech is already active.

For example, on Discord, all your messages are scanned for such. On Cloudflare as well (for over 5 years).

For now it means they have no interest to remove such content unless coerced or affected by the public opinion.

This would destroy all content though, not just for minors.

Absurd, but it works, in North Korea (death penalty), Iran (death penalty), China (10 year prison), and also protects victims from rape, or "rape" under financial pressure.

The alternative is to let responsibility of the parents to install web filter to their kids, and let others live freely on the internet, without sharing their history or IDing them.

In reality, TikTok also has really traumatizing content, yet is engaging tons of kids and teenagers, and IDing won't solve that, but good parents can.

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#24

Post by MatteoFrigo »

mystifyingpoi wrote: post #20
api wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but I'm also not convinced that a ten year old being able to be face to face with hard-core BDSM and incest fetish porn within 40 seconds of opening a web browser is healthy. I don't like this but don't have another solution other than the porn industry self-policing which isn't promising.

Well, you don't have another solution. That doesn't immediately mean that the one presented in the post is the correct one. Far from it.

The post does not present a solution to that problem. Governments around the world, especially in Europe, have legislated the solution, and the solution they have picked is a privacy nightmare. This post solves the privacy problem, which is strictly better than the status quo. We (Google) do not decide what should or should not be regulated.

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#25

Post by k__ »

treyd wrote: post #22
k__ wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web3 is just crypto brought to it's logical conclusion. That doesn't mean that part of the tech can't be used in traditional IT.

Web3 specifically is trying to repeat the dot-com bubble by using the same technology and content delivery system that it used and which led to the runaway adoption, but in a setting where it makes it too easy to separate people from their money.

I have the impression, that part of the hype cycle is already over.

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#26

Post by Kranar »

tucnak wrote: post #13
MatteoFrigo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, no blockchain involved.

To say this has nothing to do with blockchain is like saying RADAR had nothing to do with war. Yes, people knew Maxwell's equations prior, i.e. "knew the proofs," w.r.t. ZKP but it has only really been developed much later, during the war. The whole field of zero-knowledge mathematics was, if not non-existent, but certainly marginalised, before the crypto investment has hit the scene; this is facts. Yes, Shamir et al…

The comment didn't say that ZKP had nothing to do with blockchain. The comment said that blockchains are not needed/involved for a zero knowledge proof, just like war is not needed for radar.

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#28

Post by treyd »

rvnx wrote: post #23
treyd wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but even this is broken with the internet being international. You'd need a system much more advanced than even the GFW.

Somehow this work when dealing with pedophile content, so the tech is already active. For example, on Discord, all your messages are scanned for such. On Cloudflare as well (for over 5 years). For now it means they have no interest to remove such content unless coerced or affected by the public opinion. This would destroy all content though, not just for minors. Absurd, but it works, in North Korea (death penalty), I…

I agree, that does work, but there are parameters which are different that make it worth the tradeoff to police it that strongly, like the size of the audience and the much more severe real harm caused by its production and distribution.

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#29

Post by bobbiechen »

Anyone have a good explanation on the intuition of non-interactive zero-knowledge proofs? For example, I thought the "paint-mixing" analogy for Diffie-Hellman key exchange (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffie–Hellman_key_exchange#Ge...) really helped me handwave the math into "mixing easy, unmixing hard".

https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2014/11/27/zero-kno... was a good intro for interactive ZK proofs but I haven't been able to find something for non-interactive ones.

This blog post comparing ZK-STARKs to erasure coding is in the right flavor but didn't quite stick to my brain either: https://vitalik.eth.limo/general/2017/11/09/starks_part_1.ht...

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#30

Post by esbranson »

Good. ZKP is a good way to handle decentralized identity proofs. We can imagine other uses of ZKPs with digital identity wallets, such as proving state political party affiliation for participation in independent e-democracy services without having to provide PII. Good on the Commission for following through on this, not sure we've seen much from them in the protocol space since ISDN.
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